What is success

adios

以下是引用eeyupyup在2007-4-5 21:21:00的发言：

Please dont shoot the messenger. he just passed on the information. whoever actually hacked the system tasted its own medicine.

so by the same logic, all the drug dealers should be spared. 'coz they are just the messenger.

and by the same logic, all the pimps should be spared too, 'coz they are just the messenger.

glzhao

以下是引用pplpp在2007-4-6 3:08:00的发言：

好，specific一下，一个 case 而已，何必上升到道德高度？

Unfortunately, this is not just one case... this has occurred on multiple occassions in recent years.

Of course, these cases represent an extremely small percentage of the PhD students, and I have the utmost admiration for many of the ones I have met and with whom I have become friends.  But it's the bad apples that spoil the barrel.

携隐

恩...我觉得是一个可以理解，但是仍然算涉及到道德的case。如果在国内的时候，就想着读完master就工作那就是lie啊，如果是本来打算要读PHD，看了美国的job market这么好，就立刻倒戈去找工作了，那没有lie那么严重，不过不keep promise，没有责任心啊。

我很理解这些PHD们。我们常说“生活所迫”，不过不代表这些行为就是对的，只是，在国内，这样的行为很容易得到原谅，而且导师们都习以为常了吧。美国对这些看的很严重，很大程度也是因为在圣经中，lie是大罪吧。（不记得七宗罪是什么了...）

cmnstlyng

so back to the old topic. I think some people are just overly sensitive, they think that talk about ones own school is an act of bragging. Although I'm heading over to Michigan, but I still like Duke a lot, it's an excellent school and I have many close Duke friends at work. People at work poke fun at their own and each other's schools all the time, it's never been ill intentioned, people joke for fun, and to relieve stress. I have been made fun of numerous times for decide to go to Ross by Dukies, but I had my equal share of getting back to them(I have to admit though, NC weather does absolutely destroy Michigan's, but hey I still think Ross fits me better). At the end of the day, people befriend you, and to some extent your own success, not because of your school, but you as a person.

携隐

At the end of the day, people befriend you, and to some extent your own
success, not because of your school, but you as a person.

yaoyao99

以下是引用携隐在2007-4-6 3:22:00的发言：
不记得七宗罪是什么了...

可疑调查
样本不足
结论无据
无因果联系
二者择一
错误类比
时地全等

pplpp

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-4-6 3:16:00的发言：

I hope it's an unfortunate combination of lack of information and (very appropriate for this thread) lack of vision of success.  Not everyone pursuing a PhD degree knows what they're getting into when they applied.  Not everyone thought about the pressure of raising a family, the difficulty of staying in acadamia or finding a job both relevant to their field and matches the financial requirements they're looking for.  PhD is a glorious title but it also comes with a high cost.  Not everyone turns into a phoenix after setting themselves on fire.  One is bound to get themselves/people around them into trouble by blindly chasing after "a successful life" based on the narrow definition that XY mentioned earlier, without seriously considering what is realstic and what constitutes a "good fit" for the individual. 

I agree with this point.

携隐

可疑调查
样本不足
结论无据
无因果联系
二者择一
错误类比
时地全等

你强。。。

cmnstlyng

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-4-6 3:28:00的发言：

可疑调查
样本不足
结论无据
无因果联系
二者择一
错误类比
时地全等

yaoyao, did you just make those up, i just thought those are funny, but they for sure aren't the "christian 7 sins", please keep us informed what the Harvard "7 sins" are, last time I heard "binge drinking" and "lack of good sports team" are well on the top of the list.

pplpp

以下是引用携隐在2007-4-6 3:22:00的发言：
恩...我觉得是一个可以理解，但是仍然算涉及到道德的case。如果在国内的时候，就想着读完master就工作那就是lie啊，如果是本来打算要读PHD，看了美国的job market这么好(???)，就立刻倒戈去找工作了，那没有lie那么严重，不过不keep promise，没有责任心啊。

我很理解这些PHD们。我们常说“生活所迫”，不过不代表这些行为就是对的(毕业后失业就是对的？等着饿死就是对的？等着一家老小跟着受苦就是对的么？)，只是，在国内，这样的行为很容易得到原谅，而且导师们都习以为常了吧。美国对这些看的很严重，很大程度也是因为在圣经中，lie是大罪吧。（不记得七宗罪是什么了...）

mm，请看看颜色部分

另外，感觉您的叙述有点愚忠的感觉。