在bw看到的，真气人，某跟贴的ABC更可气

leighyao

Then please refer to the oath you are supposed to copy before you take the test.

I have already pointed out: the issue is that OG is OFFICIALLY released by ETS and yet JJ is not.

GAO KAO test questions are released by our government authorities not by individual students.

Specifially reply to these words of yours"同学们的JJ是在考试之后拿出来讨论的，其confidential的特质不复存在"

We all take GMAT and most of us will become executives in the coming future. Suppose one day, your boss gives your group a confidential draft to work on and tells you that you are not allowed to discuss this draft out of the office. This draft is released to your group -- just like the CBT GMAT questions are released to the test candidates. Do you still believe the draft is confidential and you should keep your mouth shut? -- Do you still believe GMAT questions are confidential and you should not exchange JJ?

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-2-15 15:13:19编辑过]

leighyao

以下是引用gonghao在2006-2-15 14:55:00的发言：

讨论一个已经公之于众的考试试题，何罪之有？scineer？

after examination，there is no confidential characteristic

Who tells you the questions are 公之于众????

gonghao

我们不该为ETS的无能和懒惰承担CHEATING的罪过

无能：只知道从题库中自动选题

懒惰：要过10年才改变一下考试模式，你要真的考试，那你就每次都出新题啊，别80年代的考题拿到90年代来考，别人看到过无数遍的题目再做自然得高分

IT'S all your faults，ETS。

NOT THE whole WORLD.

leighyao

Then your logic is:

If I see the door to one house is unlocked, I can go into the house and take whatever I want.

incapability: only posted such a message "Stealing is felony" on the door and truse everyone would be bound by it.

lazy: don't lock the door.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-2-15 15:16:35编辑过]

gonghao

leighyao，its different，examination 是所有机密文件中最特殊的一种，一旦公布则不再视之为机密

问题在于ETS自己编的题目，自己举办的考试，试题面向全世界，在所有参加考试的人看到当次考试的试题后，试题的保密性在世界范围内就不再不具备机密性，这难道不是事实吗？

sicneer

以下是引用gonghao在2006-2-15 14:50:00的发言：

你我都经历过高考，也都知道，考试试题是最高机密

但是有一点请别忘了，试卷一旦拆封，即公之余众，其confidential的characteristic即随之消逝，

从此之后，报纸，电视上出现了‘大量名师分析考题’的文章，甚至更有甚者，将其列入下一年的复习资料中，并要求学生从中把握考试的动向，及出题者的意图。

这绝不是cheating

1.同学们的JJ是在考试之后拿出来讨论的，其confidential的特质不复存在

ridiculous, the confidential nature of any test will be altered only because SOME people aleady knew the content? then what about asset in a company, will it belong to the pulic once it is stolen by the manager in charge ?  

2.虽然同学们互相交流了JJ，但在考试之前，大家也并不知道下一场考试的题是什么，如何来的cheating只说？

then why most Chinese testers knowingly choose their test dates near the end of a month? why they do not choose the first day of every test month? dont tell me you dont know that reason.

3.我来告诉你什么较cheating，在考试之前即获得考试的全部原题，并提前做针对性极强的准备，这才较CHEATING

completely blabbering, it is just like to say steal one chick is not a crime, only steal one hundred chicks is.

你可能会说JJ中有原题，我不否认，但是问题有2个

                          1.同学们在复习时那的是以前已经考过，已不具备机密性质，并非还未公布的机密考题，

why you always avoid the simple fact that 1) you will meet the exact question (JJ) on your actual test, 2) you betray your agreed pledge to not disclose any test content, both of which constitutes the exact defination of what is cheating.

                          2在考题中出现重复是很正常的事，高考中，几年前考过在3至5年后重新出现的题目，比比皆是，难道说我们由于做过的以前的真题和现在的真题一样，所以全部中国考生的高考成绩全部涉嫌CHEATING，不应采信？简直荒唐～～～   

i dont know how many questions will reappear in GAO KAO in a 3-5 year interval. similarly, i also have not idea how many Chinese students retake GAO KAO in a 3-5 years interval. but i do know one tester can face a large number of same question in the same 1-2 month in GMAT.

you actually are using your own words to justify what is called moral ambiguity in the bw article.  

一件坎肩

以下是引用gonghao在2006-2-15 15:25:00的发言：

leighyao，its different，examination 是所有机密文件中最特殊的一种，一旦公布则不再视之为机密

问题在于ETS自己编的题目，自己举办的考试，试题面向全世界，在所有参加考试的人看到当次考试的试题后，试题的保密性在世界范围内就不再不具备机密性，这难道不是事实吗？

please do recall whatever you wrote and signed before taking the test. Or you just enjoy eating yor own words?

gonghao

就像美国公布水门事件的机密文件一样，公布于众后，政府告诉大家：this issue discussiong  is not allowed’以防之后会继续出现类似的事件

荒唐啊～～～

smocky

自己没有做，就说自己没有做，不需要还在后面多此一举，得意洋洋的加上一句说，“不过，在遥远的CHINA那个地方的人，都做了哦， 我可不像他们，我是ARC哦。。。"  以进一步达到抬高自己的目的。

Think about any mainlander, he/she could say, "gee, i didn't do it, Why raise such an issue to EACH and EVERYONE of us?" or, "why i suffer such DISGRACE  that those self-claimed ARCs put on me?"

中国人中间这种大家拼命disgrace对方的行为 （俗称“窝里斗”），非常影响国家/个人发展的efficiency & competitive edge

谚语说得好，把邻居家(local mainlander) 的家具砸个稀巴烂，并不会让自己(ARC)的家具显得更好看。

ABC 是历史遗留问题，但是ARC就好比是什么瓜刷什么漆。i can imagine some (although certainly not all of them) ARC running around, claiming tirelessly that "I am ARC, I am ARC, though I am not ABC, I am DIFFEREIENT from those chinese mainlanders". 有必要这么急赤白脸吗, i just can't see the point. I do not want to be rude or anything, but, such a behavior/mentality, 有点“可笑”。

I myself make a lot of int'l travels and I have been working with lots of foreigners (Americans, Europeans). I don't think they are even aware of what "ARC" means or is. I've also been working with many overseas Chinese who become back to China to work on a project basis, no one ever montioned such a word. ARC 无非是一些没有自信心的人用来安慰自己的罢了，对于其他人来说, who cares?

My foreign colleagues and personal friends often thought I was raised or worked overseas, but I don't see this either as a compliment or an insult. It is just becase I speaks English fluently and I have more int'l exposure than they expected me to have. The point is, such a comment/title (either "westernized" or "ARC" or whatever) is NOT ABOUT quality. You are who you are, no need to let other people define who you are.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-2-15 16:55:54编辑过]

yaskemail

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-2-15 15:49:36编辑过]