Columbia VS Wharton

dashasha

以下是引用delphine18在2006-1-15 14:58:00的发言：

美国又不是只有纽约一个大城市。Chicago, Boston, SF...选择多了。再说还可以回上海呢

我当时想，如果去了NYU, 今后工作很可能又在NYC或者回上海，那就一辈子呆在大城市，没机会体验Michigan这样的美国乡村生活了。所以决定先去Michigan体验一把，反正就两年，如果不喜欢，以后工作再找大城市嘛

到了Michigan，发现原来好多老美也有这样的想法，还有人据了Columbia来Michigan的呢，没想到吧

另外，没看过《甲方乙方》

本来哥大和michigan也是差不多档次的学校啊，据了哥大去michigan也没什么可奇怪的啊。

琪斯尼

For this funny and logical post, I got a conclusion as following:

First: Wharton vs Columbia, which one is better? (Columbia is better because it is in New York City, the only city can be called big city in US. So it is no doubt that Columbia is much much better than Tuck.)

Second: NYU vs Michigan (Michigan is better because it is not in big city, different experience. There are some conflict with First, but ignore please.)

Third: Michigan = Columbia (Because they are the same tier business school)

Forth: Fuqua = Michigan (It has been proved by other posts)

Finally: Michigan=Columbia=Fuqua are much better than Wharton, Tuck, and NYU.

New ranking:

Columbia, Michigan, Fuqua, (W, H, S, K, C, M, T)

This is not my opinion, just a conclusion based on prior posts.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-1-15 21:29:48编辑过]

潜水丕说话

我被wharton拒了两次，为了避免吃不着葡萄说葡萄酸的嫌疑，只能（至少在表面上）得罪下哥大了。

根据BW2004的排名，Wharton第三，Columbia第八。但单从5位的排名差异出发就说一个学校比另一个好就显得老衲太过武断，所以根据两个广泛接受的论点：A) Top 10基本可以认为在同一个tier；B) M7之间不相伯仲，可以认为：generally speaking, Wharton=Columbia，所谓好坏，只在各人的着重点和喜好不同而已。

Location matters much much much much，虽然phili不是小城市，但NYC overrides whatever city，所以Columbia在这点上比Wharton好太多了。有人据此认为这说明Columbia比Wharton好太多，但俺不同意。作出上述结论的隐含假设在于坊间普遍接受的排名标准和tier划分并不考虑或很少考虑location因素，但真是这样的吗？再看看why location matters，自然是intern好找，interview机会多，找工作方便，年薪数字大等等（谁要说XX博物馆在N个block之外也是一个因素的话所有CDer都跟他没完吧？）。MBA排名评定标准一定会包括毕业生就业率、起薪数字这两个指标，我没有去比较每个学校的具体数字，就假设Columbia由于其得天独厚的location advantage，这方面的指标比Wharton好太多好了。但占了个这么大的便宜，还跟Wharton，甚至Tuck这样的阿乡学校在一个Tier，这个、这个说明什么捏？我胆子小不敢直说，只能换个角度：如果把Columbia原封不动搬到Dartmouth，肯定是个烂的一塌糊涂的学校。

鉴定完毕

delphine18

以下是引用dashasha在2006-1-15 16:22:00的发言：

本来哥大和michigan也是差不多档次的学校啊，据了哥大去michigan也没什么可奇怪的啊。

从排名和美国人的视角看的确如此。可是在中国人眼里，那是绝对去哥大的，谁让哥大每年才招那么几个中国人呢，物以稀为贵嘛

琪斯尼

以下是引用delphine18在2006-1-16 2:50:00的发言：

从排名和美国人的视角看的确如此。可是在中国人眼里，那是绝对去哥大的，谁让哥大每年才招那么几个中国人呢，物以稀为贵嘛

MM挺客观。俺一直想说不敢说：如果Wharton每年就招5个，6个的，就没有人把它和Columbia来比了。大多数人的小农心态。

jw2015

以下是引用琪斯尼在2006-1-16 9:14:00的发言：

MM挺客观。俺一直想说不敢说：如果Wharton每年就招5个，6个的，就没有人把它和Columbia来比了。大多数人的小农心态。

selective = 小农心态?

its obvious that columbia is harder to get in than wharton, similarly stanford than hbs for mainland students

even though they are in the same level, statistics wise, doesn't it tell you something?

lets see THU is at the same level of Shanghai JT. If a student from beijing was admitted by SJT instead of THU,

what does it tell you?

jw2015

以下是引用delphine18在2006-1-15 15:08:00的发言：

1. Ann Arbor has too much snow in the winter, even though good for skiing.

Not much snow this winter, at least after new year

good for you... its pain in the a** to dig the car out of the snow.

2. Ann Arbor is far away from Chicago and Detroit

AA is close to Detroit and within hours' drive to Chicago. But Detroit is definitely not a good choice for job and life.

I don't quite remember, how many hours it takes to get to Chicago. 3 and half? its hard to make it one day trip.

one more thing forget to mention. most of UM students are rich kids, which makes Ann Arbor more expensive than I expected.

3. Whole automotive industry is going down, so is State of Michigan

Agree

4. MBS graduate I know are all in consulting, which I am tired of

Not so many alumni went to consulting. That's actually what I think one of the disadvantages of Michigan. Many consulting firms have fewer interview slots here than in Wharton or Kellogg.

most of the big ones have offices in Chicago. plenty opportunities to get interviewed.

delphine18

以下是引用jw2015在2006-1-16 11:42:00的发言：

2. Ann Arbor is far away from Chicago and Detroit

AA is close to Detroit and within hours' drive to Chicago. But Detroit is definitely not a good choice for job and life.

I don't quite remember, how many hours it takes to get to Chicago. 3 and half? its hard to make it one day trip.

one more thing forget to mention. most of UM students are rich kids, which makes Ann Arbor more expensive than I expected.

UM is one of the top public schools in US. So generally speaking, UM students are not that rich compared with those of private schools. It's the landlords, not the students who raise the local living standards.

4. MBS graduate I know are all in consulting, which I am tired of

Not so many alumni went to consulting. That's actually what I think one of the disadvantages of Michigan. Many consulting firms have fewer interview slots here than in Wharton or Kellogg.

most of the big ones have offices in Chicago. plenty opportunities to get interviewed.

Having offices in Chicago doesn't necessarily mean consulting firms will hire more in Michigan. Fewer interview slots than other schools' is the best evidence. On the other hand, this point of yours also conflicts with your former claim that "AA is far away from Chicago".

潜水丕说话

以下是引用jw2015在2006-1-16 11:35:00的发言：

selective = 小农心态?

its obvious that columbia is harder to get in than wharton, similarly stanford than hbs for mainland students

even though they are in the same level, statistics wise, doesn't it tell you something?

lets see THU is at the same level of Shanghai JT. If a student from beijing was admitted by SJT instead of THU,

what does it tell you?

Logical sense tells us that the reason why Columbia admits few Chinese students may be either: a) Columbia is selective, or unfriendly, to Chinese students; b) Chinese students don't like to apply to Columbia. For scenario b) there are also several probable causes like - 1) After seeing the low admission rate of Columbia for certain year(s), they have been discouraged to apply; 2) Chinese students don't like Columbia, though it's top 10, the ROI may not be acceptable, considering the high living cost and relatively lower ranking (than Wharton)...

Most people, even Chinese, don't think SJT & THU on the same tier, if sb. from BJ admitted by SJT and denied by THU, it means: 1) his academic performance is so poor that he can't even compete for a position in BJ, where average students have good chance to be admitted by THU; 2) he may be the only BJ guy who applies to SJT that year, you know, Chinese universities have 招生任务 for each city

KittySweet

以下是引用newby在2006-1-12 22:59:00的发言：

哥大是我除了哈佛之外，最喜欢的学校。很少有人不喜欢哈佛。哈哈。

但我绝不是因为喜欢哥大而在之前的帖子里表明自己对沃顿的不满。这两者之间没有关系，我是就事论事。

其实，哥大是最早点燃我读MBA的梦想的学校。最早喜欢她的原因很可笑：就是喜欢哥伦比亚这个名字，听起来有气势。

但之后因为周围几乎没有中国校友，所以对学校了解很少，只是感觉不错；再后来听说梁实秋在哥大读过书，更喜欢了（本人喜欢梁的散文）。

再后来，渐渐听说哥大对中国不友好，有些失望。所以去年申请哥大失败后，把这归因为其对中国的不友好。：-）

直到今年重新申请我才慢慢开始了解哥大。

其实我喜欢哥大的原因很简单：

1。地理位置。我在投行工作，因此纽约当然是首选。纽约的好几乎无法用语言形容。借用一句别人的话：NY is not just a city, it is an experience. 我非常喜欢香港，因为它的活力、东西方文化的交融和时尚魅力，因此虽然我没去过纽约（很不巧），但我一定会喜欢那儿的。

2。其他的原因。这其中包括哥大的金融强，校友不错，等等等等。大家都知道。

3。最后这个原因是真正让我近乎疯狂的喜欢哥大的原因：executive in residence.这是哥大独有的一个特色课程。哥大有一个十人左右的委员会，这十个人都是各个行业里顶尖的专业人士或具有丰富实践经验的教授，他们在退休后（有些还没有退休）来到哥大，加入这个委员会，与mba们分享他们数十年的从业经验，并定期为学生们在事业发展方面提供任何咨询和建议。比如，我没有咨询的背景，想进咨询公司，他们就可以在和我谈话和看过简历之后，告诉我应该在哪些方面努力，就能更有利于将来进咨询公司。

我认为，一个人成功没有捷径，如果一定要找一条捷径的话，那就是跟随已经成功的人走一段，就像当年巴菲特愿意无偿的为格雷厄姆工作一样。（巴菲特是51年毕业的哥大校友，而且他是从沃顿退学的）。

4。关于哥大队中国的不友好，在今年的招待会上，哥大招生委员会的nancy曾被问过这个问题，她的回答是哥大很希望多招中国学生。我想言下之意大概是，他们比较挑剔。其实我不久前在哥大的统计数据中发现哥2004年的毕业生除了英语以外的第二语言排名是这样的：西班牙语（169人）、法语（125人）、普通话（56人）、德语（33）、希伯来（31）、印度语（28）意大利语（26）、葡萄牙语（25）、粤语（22）、俄语（21）、日语（13）。。。。还需要解释吗？我想把普通话当作第二语言的外国人应该有，但不会很多。这说明什么呢？说明哥大招的中国背景的学生并不少，只是可能大家都不知道而已。

好了，说得够多了。这只是我的一家之言。欢迎大家批评指正。

up!我很喜欢哥伦比亚，初冬曾经有幸造访校园，印象最深的就是上了一节“leadership”的课。教授曾是经验丰富的名企高管，讲课非常的powerful,激动人心。我想巴菲特的选择自有他的道理。唯一的遗憾就是几乎看不到中国学生。

我也去了Wharton的校园，接触了一下同学和老师，中国同学很多，大家在一起也很happy的。：）

不过，两个学校的治安好像都有点让人担心。一个离哈林姆很近，另一个地理位置也蛮偏僻。多嘴一句，无论何时，要注意安全啊。