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以后在中国发展应该去INSEAD, LBS还是M7?

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141#
发表于 2013-3-21 12:31:45 | 只看该作者
Read it this morning in the Metro. Great insights!  Thanks for sharing.

尤其是关于political leverage那一段感触比较深,其实现在很多大外企为了cost saving正在削减consulting fees这部分的支出,倒是很多国企现在学会搞外企这一套,靠MBB在推无数的unpopular decison,而且个个出手大方。有个在法国认识的朋友家里有些网络,回国创业开boutique consulting firm, 整天就是帮一堆国企在搞这个,呵呵。

没有用你的职业在判断你这个人啦,纯粹在讨论CONSULTING这个行业的价值创造究竟在哪里,做corporate finance的人也是有人性格有趣有人性格boring的。

这里有一些观点

What Value Do Consulting Firms Like McKinsey, Bain, Et Al. Really Add To An Operation?

Raj Ramanan, Co-Founder of Loku (remember.loku.com)
I interned at Bain & Co., started my career at McKinsey & Co, worked in the operations/turnaround group at KKR with ex-BCG consultants, worked at an internal consulting function at Bear Stearns, and was an independent consultant to small and medium businesses before co-founding a company (Loku).
I first want to make the distinction between generalist strategy consulting shops (McKinsey, Bain, and BCG) vs. specialized or technical shops (Accenture, boutiques). I can only speak credibly about the former (though, as a former consultant, a lack of credibility has never stopped me from talking on any subject…).
Cynicism aside, the real value a consulting firm provides is:
1. Political leverage: CEOs that want or need to make an unpopular decision often bring in a consulting firm to help. This provides ammunition to recommend an unpopular or risky decision to the board (expansion into a new business line or geography, or shutting down a plant). The CEO can also distance herself from an unpopular decision by blaming the consultants. Finally, if things go wrong, consultants are a handy scapegoat.
2. Pool knowledge across functions: Consultants are not part of the client’s culture, politics, or organization culture. In the first month, as the firm builds a fact base, consultants usually interview people across functions. In large companies, cross-functional problem-solving rarely happens. Just getting different functions in a room typically unlocks creative problem solving.
3. Pool knowledge across levels: Similarly, consultants interview, watch, and tag along with people down the organization’s structure, often starting with customers and moving through sales and line roles. CEOs and the exec team of large companies rarely do this (exception being their largest customers). There are tremendous insights to be had by doing this.
4. Deep focus on one problem: The biggest value is that you have a dedicated team of pretty smart people who are generally unbiased that can focus deeply on one particular problem. At a company, in any role, you have a day job, and at best can focus only a portion of your time on a particular issue. Nowhere is this more true than at a startup, but that’s another Quora post.
I want to point out that even though you could group all of this as “telling you what you already know,” all of this is real value that impacts the bottom line however you measure it, and that in the absence of strong leadership or a big, risky culture change, could not have been accomplished without the consultant.
What value does a consulting firm NOT provide?
1. Subject matter expertise: The people who are doing the bulk of the work are fresh out of college (like I was) or business school, often from a range of majors, with little-to-no work experience. They don’t know anything. They are really smart, very hard-working, resourceful, and well-trained, but they know absolutely nothing coming in about your industry, company, or particular issue. More interestingly, the director or partner on the project is not really a subject matter expert either. She has built her career in a particular industry or practice area and has served a range of clients across a range of problems. Her value is pattern recognition, but there is no way she can know more about the client’s industry, company, or problem then someone who lives it every single day for years. And most partners and directors are career consultants, not industry vets (certainly true at the big three shops).
2. Executive coaching: The firms love to provide long-term, ongoing, ambiguous projects on a retainer. If you are a CEO, get a therapist. Or some friends. Or a board that is actually helpful. Or a best friend. You don’t want a partner at a firm who spends a half hour a month thinking about you or your problem to bill you on a retainer.
3. Actual decision making: Consultants are great at assembling facts from the outside world, bringing in perspective from all functions and levels of your company, finding interesting patterns, and providing you with a point of view. They will jump in the line of fire on controversial decisions and fall on the sword if things go wrong. But they can never actually make the tough decision. No outsider can every truly understand the needs of the various stakeholders. No outsider has as much at stake personally and professionally. It is so incredibly different to recommend layoffs for 10% of a plant (100 people) vs. actually firing a single person. I’ve done both, and the former does not have the emotional or cultural consequences of the latter. Only the CEO or other leader at a company can actually pull the trigger; the consultant can at best show you how to hold the gun and maybe give you a few targets to aim at.

很多时候 日常的每一句话每个行为 都是a proposal, an assignment, a choice, a decision, a leadership case。这样推的话, 根据对方的职业来判断一个人的话可能会出些偏差。
-- by 会员 ccafic (2013/3/21 3:47:55)

142#
发表于 2013-3-22 16:59:15 | 只看该作者
欣赏Julie的执着和热情,但是有点鄙视其天马行空和对其它群体的轻薄(包括对其它公司,学校,职业)。
143#
发表于 2013-3-22 17:30:06 | 只看该作者
我觉得julie也就是在CD说说而已,现实中应该不会这样放纵。
144#
发表于 2013-3-22 18:20:26 | 只看该作者
我的妈呀,这位一直在潜水的童鞋突然跳起扣这么大一个冤帽子给Julie,三月的上海居然没有飘雪啊,呵呵

哪敢鄙视其他学校啊,有鄙视过LBS吗最多就是抱怨一下他家的学费太贵或者是最近毕业的学生学金融的比例下降罢了,有鄙视过DUKE吗帮DUKE说过无数好话FUQUA的人欠我不知道多少广告费,有鄙视过芝加哥吗只有抱怨过那个城市的天气和犯罪率,更不敢鄙视沃顿,对沃顿的敬仰如滔滔江水,LZ( 还有人记得这个歪的不成样的帖子的LZ是谁吗,呵呵)抛出问题的时候,偶在前几楼就建议他要申请一下沃顿因为沃顿在亚洲的名气和校友势力很大。

身处CD上活生生的鄙视链的最底端(INDUSTRY),又哪敢去鄙视链子上最上端的人,什么PE, IBD, MBB之类的,说些MBB的坏话那是想用激将法听到一些内部人士的insights,连这个也看不出来啊。

其他公司,偶好像没有提到过什么太多公司吧,除了偶自己身处的这个倒霉公司。至于鄙视偶对面的那个沃顿老哥,这个是真的。。。但是偶也已经针对此事认过错了,说过要像习总说的要接受尖锐批评,而且偶也很后悔,因为从上个礼拜二起偶的对面的位子就空空的了,偶这辈子估计都没啥子机会再见到这个人了,偶也希望他早日找到工作。不过偶去年有帮他那么多忙,他连个“谢”字也没有,大家也算是扯平了,呵呵


欣赏Julie的执着和热情,但是有点鄙视其天马行空和对其它群体的轻薄(包括对其它公司,学校,职业)。
-- by 会员 davidcarr (2013/3/22 16:59:15)




145#
发表于 2013-3-23 13:34:00 | 只看该作者
M7是?
146#
发表于 2013-3-23 23:04:26 | 只看该作者
妹纸,现在我更欣赏你的巧言善辩。无须多言,你既然现在承认没这种鄙视的倾向那就已经很好了。恭喜你,你那个看不惯的沃顿哥终于被你斗争掉了。哈哈,其实你这女孩儿吧,也就在CD上过过嘴瘾,现实中可真是个潜伏的人物。
147#
发表于 2013-3-24 04:15:02 | 只看该作者
这种有的好比么,都不是一个档次的。能去M7的,有几个还去LBS, INSEAD啊。别说M7,就是LBS和NYU,我知道的绝大多数都是去的NYU。

我说话很中立,如果LBS, INSEAD是放弃了M7的去的,我先道歉。
148#
发表于 2013-3-24 06:16:27 | 只看该作者
大体上来讲,要读两年制的MBA的人,优先考虑美国的情况是对,但去欧洲两年制的人并不一定比去美国的申请人差,LS所说的这个事情需要基于一个前提,那就是"中国人申请MBA"。刨除这个前提这个结论就是实效了,就像据我所知,IE,IESE MBA中人数最多的群体是美国人(北美人)。

而一年制MBA跟两年制的MBA更是两类事物,论整体MBA在读人的能力(非GT分数能力),在欧洲top3 一年制MBA的同学整体超过M7那些同学是毫无疑问的。从整体来讲,一年制MBA同学的职业成熟度,自我成熟度和对自己职业发展的认知程度是高于所谓M7的那些同学。
而其实中国人比较哪些申请人的素质高低是否"牛"比较倾向于基于GT成绩,应属非理性范畴了。
149#
发表于 2013-3-24 09:31:29 | 只看该作者
不好意思 还是要申明一下 他被开掉和我一点关系也没有 他和去年被开掉的凯洛克的SM还有前年被开掉的HBS的VP如出一辙 (这两人都是老外)都是KPI四个或三个红 达不到老板的要求 他走的时候连HR VP都在试图保他(因为没有呆满三年会影响HR的leadership项目的指标)都没有保住 岂是我这样的小吊丝说两句就能踢走的
妹纸,现在我更欣赏你的巧言善辩。无须多言,你既然现在承认没这种鄙视的倾向那就已经很好了。恭喜你,你那个看不惯的沃顿哥终于被你斗争掉了。哈哈,其实你这女孩儿吧,也就在CD上过过嘴瘾,现实中可真是个潜伏的人物。
-- by 会员 davidcarr (2013/3/23 23:04:26)

150#
发表于 2013-3-24 10:00:35 | 只看该作者
AGAIN, 美国人的自高自大和愚蠢在全世界都是出了名的,有些中国人在北美呆久了, 就变得和老美一模一样了
土豆网的创始人王微认识吧, 以他在北美多年的要多硬有多硬的背景为啥没有读M7呢 为啥MBA读的是INSEAD呢

这个世界很大, 大的超乎你的想象.

不过你一向的言论就是 “读MBA以M7为尊”, “选职业以buy side为尊”,所以我看到你写的东西一点都不奇怪。我身边就有去了沃顿或者哥大但是连INSEAD的面试都没拿到的或者被列在WL上的要不要介绍给你认识一下。至于LBS,人家就是爱去伦敦做金融不爱去北美,关你什么事,LBS在欧洲的MBA里做金融独大,金融危机以前LBS的金融方面的就业不知道比你们那些M7中的非金融口味的学校强多少倍。

我还认识清华本科毕业没去哈佛的去巴黎综合理工读书的,你估计又是闻所未闻了。

这种有的好比么,都不是一个档次的。能去M7的,有几个还去LBS, INSEAD啊。别说M7,就是LBS和NYU,我知道的绝大多数都是去的NYU。

我说话很中立,如果LBS, INSEAD是放弃了M7的去的,我先道歉。
-- by 会员 mini1020 (2013/3/24 4:15:02)






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