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thomas2007

<>不知道你贴这文章什么意思，参加葬礼的人多就伟大? 照这样说，参加老毛，老邓的葬礼比这多多了，他们不是更伟大？当然，个人认为他们比这个教皇伟大，起码他们改变了十几亿人中国人的命运。如果哪天悼念拉登的人也比这人多，你猜美国到时会不会让CNN来个全程直播？</P><><FONT color=#ee3d11>Remember, they are mere political gangs and their death is no more important than that of my cat. Talk about Mao, for instance, how did he change your life? to give you an opportunity to see the cultural revolutionary, most ugliest movement of the human being on this planet. On the other hand, the influence of the Pope is far more significant and deeper than that of either Mao, Zhou or even Deng, not to mention Laden. He is the spiritual leader, the peace ambassador and the reinless king ever in this world. His achievements were unparalleled by any other political leader on this planet. </FONT></P>

jnpcomm

<DIV class=quote><B>以下是引用<I>thomas2007</I>在2005-4-6 23:31:00的发言：</B><br /><br /><>不知道你贴这文章什么意思，参加葬礼的人多就伟大? 照这样说，参加老毛，老邓的葬礼比这多多了，他们不是更伟大？当然，个人认为他们比这个教皇伟大，起码他们改变了十几亿人中国人的命运。如果哪天悼念拉登的人也比这人多，你猜美国到时会不会让CNN来个全程直播？</P><br /><><FONT color=#ee3d11>Remember, they are mere political gangs and their death is no more important than that of my cat. Talk about Mao, for instance, how did he change your life? to give you an opportunity to see the cultural revolutionary, most ugliest movement of the human being on this planet. On the other hand, the influence of the Pope is far more significant and deeper than that of either Mao, Zhou or even Deng, not to mention Laden. He is the spiritual leader, the peace ambassador and the reinless king ever in this world. His achievements were unparalleled by any other political leader on this planet. </FONT></P></DIV><br /><>Don't just mention the number of how many people will attend his funeral? I didn't say all Mao's doing are correct (I think 50% of his doing is wrong or evil), but at least he reunited the Chinese people, he rebuilt Chinese's confidence and China become an independent country. Do you think 蒋 could do this at that time?&nbsp;&nbsp;In terms of Deng's influence, you will feel it even in U.S. Anyway, I don't want to argue for this in this thread. <br /><>Let's go back to the topic. Tell me how deep the influence the pope gives us? give me an example.&nbsp;&nbsp;Don't just mention how many people attend his funeral, it means nothing. That's what I original meaning. In terms of Laden, you have your thought on him, are you sure your thought is the same with Muslims? If the answer is no, how can you force other people to take the same perspective on Pope as yours?</P>

thomas2007

<>Don't just mention the number of how many people will attend his funeral? I didn't say all Mao's doing are correct (I think 50% of his doing is wrong or evil), but at least he reunited the Chinese people, he rebuilt Chinese's confidence and China become an independent country. Do you think 蒋 could do this at that time?&nbsp;&nbsp;In terms of Deng's influence, you will feel it even in U.S. Anyway, I don't want to argue for this in this thread. <br /><>Let's go back to the topic. Tell me how deep the influence the pope gives us? give me an example.&nbsp;&nbsp;Don't just mention how many people attend his funeral, it means nothing. That's what I original meaning. In terms of Laden, you have your thought on him, are you sure your thought is the same with Muslims? If the answer is no, how can you force other people to take the same perspective on Pope as yours?</P><><FONT color=#f70909>Did you read my comments with due care? Probably not. I didn't even mention the attendance of Pope's funeral at all. He devoted all his life to promoting the peace course and human rights in warring places such as Iraq. </FONT></P><><FONT color=#f70909>Do you know that Jiang would have almost succeeded in driving Mao's militia out of this planet had it not been for the generous gift of Japanese invasion coupled with Gen.Zhang's treason? I believe that Jiang could achieve no less if he had the real physical control over the whole country at that time. With regards to Deng's contribution, it is a must-do for the CPP to save the regime, an act that should have been implemented since 1949. </FONT></P><><FONT color=#f70909>I am so sorry for your last point. Do you know that true Muslim do not believe in bloody terrorism. If your claim holds true, then you are in fact accusing most of the Muslims gangs of terrorists. </FONT></P>

kiki1

<>大家不要吵了。在这里，大家只要反对日本加入安理会，反对台独，坚决力挺一个中国，就是海外游子对祖国的最好支持。</P><>教皇怎么样，大家不要去管了，我看Vatican迟早会和中国建交的。大家看了官方发言吗？只要Vatican承认一个中国，并且不干涉中国内政，中国政府愿意建交。其实主要是Paul II 是反对共产党的，所以政府才有后面这一条。后面一条我看上去好像未必和任命主教有冲突，如果天主教的主教的职责正如前面几位据称对天主教比较有研究的人的说法。</P>

jnpcomm

<DIV class=quote><B>以下是引用<I>thomas2007</I>在2005-4-7 0:17:00的发言：</B><br /><br /><>Don't just mention the number of how many people will attend his funeral? I didn't say all Mao's doing are correct (I think 50% of his doing is wrong or evil), but at least he reunited the Chinese people, he rebuilt Chinese's confidence and China become an independent country. Do you think 蒋 could do this at that time?&nbsp;&nbsp;In terms of Deng's influence, you will feel it even in U.S. Anyway, I don't want to argue for this in this thread. <br /><br /><>Let's go back to the topic. Tell me how deep the influence the pope gives us? give me an example.&nbsp;&nbsp;Don't just mention how many people attend his funeral, it means nothing. That's what I original meaning. In terms of Laden, you have your thought on him, are you sure your thought is the same with Muslims? If the answer is no, how can you force other people to take the same perspective on Pope as yours?</P><br /><><FONT color=#f70909>Did you read my comments with due care? Probably not. I didn't even mention the attendance of Pope's funeral at all. He devoted all his life to promoting the peace course and human rights in warring places such as Iraq. </FONT></P><br /><><FONT color=#f70909>Do you know that Jiang would have almost succeeded in driving Mao's militia out of this planet had it not been for the generous gift of Japanese invasion coupled with Gen.Zhang's treason? I believe that Jiang could achieve no less if he had the real physical control over the whole country at that time. With regards to Deng's contribution, it is a must-do for the CPP to save the regime, an act that should have been implemented since 1949. </FONT></P><br /><><FONT color=#f70909>I am so sorry for your last point. Do you know that true Muslim do not believe in bloody terrorism. If your claim holds true, then you are in fact accusing most of the Muslims gangs of terrorists. </FONT></P></DIV><br /><>Did you read the context of my first post carefully? My original meaning is that I didn't agree to use the number of funeral attendants to demonstrate how great the pope is. Mao and Deng are just an example. I think you are the one who made the mistake.<br /><>If you stick to Mao and Deng, there is no "if" in history, do you agree? at least Jiang did not show his ability to lead the country go to indenpendence, but Mao did. In terms of Deng, could anyone else could do this so-called "must-did"? <br /><>In terms of Muslims, how do you define true Muslims? do you mean that those Muslims are not "true Muslims" could not believe what that believe? Even in America, Christians are belonged to different branches, could you say which branch is true? Do the other branches are not allowed?<br /><> <br />

zouweiyao

<>再转一篇关于Pope 的文章.</P><><b><FONT size=3>教皇还是教宗</FONT></b></P><>近中文新闻媒体在报导约翰·保罗二世去世的消息时，有的称他为“教皇”，有的称“教宗”。中国官方的称呼以“教皇”为主，而华人天主教徒一般称他们的最高领袖为“教宗”。目前全世界的眼睛都在关注梵蒂冈，等待着西斯汀教堂冒出白烟，关注新的“教宗”、或者说“教皇”的诞生。那么，“教皇”或“教宗”的中文用法都有什么来历，到底那一种说法更恰当呢？ <br /><br />*POPE拉丁文原意为父亲* <br /><br />到底是“教皇”还是“教宗”？或许很多人对这个问题不以为然。说到底，对大多数人来说这只不过是一种约定俗成的叫法，没有多少人会真的去思考二者之间的区别。英文词Pope可以追溯到拉丁文， 原意是“父亲”，是对神职人员的尊称，相当于现在神父的意思，后来才专用于罗马天主教的最高职位。 <br /><br />天主教香港教区的罗神父表示，从这个意义上来看也许“教宗”更符合Pope的原意。罗神父解释说：“本来拉丁文那个字的意思就是爸爸。Pope就是爸爸，在教会里他就是爸爸，是父亲。他是我们的父亲，教会本来就是一个家吗。” <br /><br />*历史上有不同翻法* <br /><br />ope历史上确实被翻译成教皇，而历史上的教皇曾经在欧洲拥有很大的权力和影响。清朝康熙皇帝的时候，Pope曾经被翻译成“教化王”。那时，中国显然不愿意承认远在天边还有另外一位“皇帝”能够跟大清的天子平起平坐。后来，POPE被翻译成“教皇”。 <br /><br />*大陆以外华人普遍使用教宗* <br /><br />但是香港的罗神父说，他不赞成使用“教皇”这个词。他说：“那个太政治化了，而且是一种误会。我们为什么用教宗，不用教皇，以往历史上翻译过教皇，后来马上改过来了，因为教宗有一脉相传的意思。” <br /><br />而且在罗神父眼里，已故的教宗是非常人性化的一个人。他说：“教宗很人性，我觉得他很可爱，我用可爱。你有没有看过他的照片他扮鬼脸的时候多可爱。” <br /><br />*大陆官方使用教皇* <br /><br />在中国大陆以外的华人世界，“ 教宗”被普遍使用。 在中国大陆， 官方新闻媒体和民众使用“教皇”。新华社的有关人员对本台记者表示，他们今后还要继续沿用“教皇”这个说法。 <br /><br />*大陆天主教徒选择教宗* <br /><br />不过，即使是和梵蒂冈没有正式关系的中国天主教爱国会和宗教界人士也选择使用“教宗”。 <br /><br />中国天主教爱国会副主席刘柏年以及其他一些天主教爱国会的官员在不同的场合使用了“教宗” 。那么“教宗”是不是一种统一的说法呢？ 刘柏年说：“教宗是教会对他的尊称。外界有人称他为教皇，好像梵蒂冈有个皇帝一样，西方也叫他Papa，我们也叫圣父。我们和各国教会一样都称为教宗。” <br /><br />不过，那么对于新华社等官方媒体仍然使用“教皇”，官方教会的刘柏年表示可以接受。他说：“他们有他们的称呼，我们有我们的称呼，没有问题。” <br /><br />*也有教徒使用教皇* <br /><br />中国还有大批拒绝参加官方教会并继续效忠罗马教廷的地下天主教徒。在这个问题上，一位地下天主教会神父对本台记者说，他们的神职人员一般都使用“教宗”这一称呼。不过，很多普通信徒在私下还是称“教皇”。 <!--end content-->&nbsp; &nbsp;</P><> </P>

adios

<DIV class=quote><B>以下是引用<I>thomas2007</I>在2005-4-6 22:53:00的发言：</B><br /><><FONT color=#f70909>Interesting comment. then refer back to your statement-as a natural step, i think you will start cursing me go to hell,-shall I call you a shameless liar in this regard? </FONT></P><br /><><FONT color=#000000>"i think you will" = "you were/you are"? even funnier.</FONT></P><br /><>i don't care what do you call. you have called people "brain-washed", it is certainly not a surprise to see you calling people "liar", or whatever. </P><br /><>and this is what a Christian - as you are - does.</P><br /><><FONT color=#ff0000>Besides, it is not uncommon to see several contradictory statements in your arguement, a phenominen often seen on those so-called ardent believer of Maxism. </FONT></P><br /><>there are some big words, ha. as i said, you can lable people whatever you want. again, as a Christian. or maybe you were born this way, gets nothing to do with your belief. but anyway, seems you are at fun labling people. </P><br /><><FONT color=#ff0000>Unlike you, I never claimed that I am a pratriot. As I said, I will leave this country for </FONT></P><br /><><FONT color=#000000>you said it on 2005-4-6 13:04:00. quote: "I love this country" unquote.</FONT></P><br /><>should i call you a liar then? nay. i don't care what you are.</P><br /><><FONT color=#ff0000>ever since I can not see any positive sign of restoring human rights, freedom of speech and religion in this country in the foreseeable future. I am honest, unlike someone, who might be speaking as sweetly as be singing. Who knows whether you are a green card holder? Who knows what you will do if the country is in perilous status?</FONT></P><br /><P>i know for sure that as long as CCP is in control, i may not change my nationality. but if somehow one day a person like you is in charge of chinese policy, i will be the first one to abandon my chinese nationality.</P></DIV><br /><DIV class=quote></DIV><br /><br /><br /><div align="right"><font color="#000066">[此贴子已经被作者于2005-4-7 8:46:05编辑过]</font></div>

adios

<DIV class=quote><B>以下是引用<I>thomas2007</I>在2005-4-6 23:31:00的发言：</B><br /><><FONT color=#ee3d11>Remember, they are mere political gangs and their death is no more important than that of my cat. Talk about Mao, for instance, how did he change your life? to give you an opportunity to see the cultural revolutionary, most ugliest movement of the human being on this planet. On the other hand, the influence of the Pope is far more significant and deeper than that of either Mao, Zhou or even Deng, not to mention Laden. He is the spiritual leader, the peace ambassador and the reinless king ever in this world. His achievements were unparalleled by any other political leader on this planet. </FONT></P></DIV><br /><>certainly you have your rights to express your opinion, but i am sick of your statement.<br /><br /><>without Mao, probably westerners will just see you as "butler", "pig-tail", "waiter". <br /><br /><>btw, maybe the Pope is your king, but certainly he is not mine, or many of the others who happen to live on this planet as well. <br /><br /><>so save your big statement of "<FONT color=#ee3d11>the reinless king ever in this world.</FONT><FONT color=#000000>".</FONT><br /><>you talk about "respect", "diversity" all day long, and i certainly hope you live up to your own words.<br /><br /><>i know for sure the Pope is not the "reinless king" of any muslim. and i consider your statement a brutal humiliation to all the muslims, and a insult to them. </P><br /><>"there is no god but one God, and Mohamed is his prophet" - so don't talk some "reinless king" trash again to the other people, you are insulting each and everone of them.</P><br /><>respect the others. that is my word to you, a so-called "Christian".</P><br /><div align="right"><font color="#000066">[此贴子已经被作者于2005-4-7 8:57:17编辑过]</font></div>

adios

<DIV class=quote><B>以下是引用<I>zouweiyao</I>在2005-4-6 18:56:00的发言：</B><br /><>My opion about Cathlic is clear: Catholic Church is making obvious progresses in the 20 century, compared to those days in the mid-age.&nbsp;&nbsp;THERE ARE such world famous guys as Tutu and&nbsp;&nbsp;Telisa, of course including this passed Pope. Believing Catholic or other religion is your freedom, which is guranteed by the CCP"s law. But for the&nbsp;&nbsp;Catholists, their spirit leader is Pope, and the tradition is that Pope appoints Bishop as his representive to all Catholic districts. </P></DIV><br /><>read your own post before you lose your own mind.</P><br /><>first start with calling the others "brain-washed". then jump to "Bishop Tutu". and the below is your original post. tell me Bishop Tutu gets anything to do with your stands. don't try to do patches afterwards.</P><br /><>and i feel sorry for you so-called "Christian", with such high caliber of personal quality. apparently you are the best of the best, 'coz any different opinion, is a "brain-washed" result to you.</P><br /><>"You seem the brain-washed guy by government. </P><br /><>Do you know Bishop Tutu in South Africa, who helps end the racism government and won the Nobel? Do you know Teresa in India, who helps many poors and also get world fame? They are loyal catholists of 20 century.&nbsp;&nbsp;If you do not know these men, go to library again"</P><br /><div align="right"><font color="#000066">[此贴子已经被作者于2005-4-7 8:52:42编辑过]</font></div>

adios

<DIV class=quote><B>以下是引用<I>thomas2007</I>在2005-4-7 0:17:00的发言：</B><br /><br /><><FONT color=#f70909>Did you read my comments with due care? Probably not. I didn't even mention the attendance of Pope's funeral at all. He devoted all his life to promoting the peace course and human rights in warring places such as Iraq. </FONT></P><br /><><FONT color=#000000>Mao devoted his life to make you stand up, like a human being. </FONT></P><br /><>before Mao, you are just some low-life dog in the most westerner's eyes. you punkhead.</P><br /><><FONT color=#f70909>Do you know that Jiang would have almost succeeded in driving Mao's militia out of this planet had it not been for the generous gift of Japanese invasion coupled with Gen.Zhang's treason? I believe that Jiang could achieve no less if he had the real </FONT></P><br /><><FONT color=#f70909><FONT color=#000000>yes, you know everything. and you are always right. no question about it. </FONT></FONT></P><br /><>to you, others are either idiot, or "brain-washed". again, this is what you, as a Christian behaved, on this board. </P><br /><><FONT color=#f70909>physical control over the whole country at that time. With regards to Deng's contribution, it is a must-do for the CPP to save the regime, an act that should have been implemented since 1949. </FONT></P></DIV>