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OG11-44 常识怎么能推逻辑题?

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楼主
发表于 2006-7-23 00:40:00 | 只看该作者

OG11-44 常识怎么能推逻辑题?

OG11-44
In the last decade there has been a significant decrease in coffee consumption. During this same time, there has been increasing publicity about the caffeine in coffee's adverse long-term effects on health. Therefore, the decrease in coffee consumption must have been caused by consumers' awareness of the harmful effects of caffeine.
A. On average , people consume 30 percent less coffee today than they did 10 years ago.
B. Heavy coffee drinkers may have mild withdrawal symptoms, such as headaches, for a day or so after significantly decreasing their coffee consumption.
C. Sales of specialty types of coffee have held steady as sales of regular brands have declined.
D. The consumption of fruit juices and caffeinefree herval teas has incrased over the past decade.
E. Coffee prices increased steadily in the past decade because of unusually severe frosts in coffee-growing nations.


原题:因为咖啡消费和咖啡影响健康报道同时发生,所以影响健康导致咖啡消费减少。
目的:削弱
C, specialty types的咖啡消费没变,只是regular brands的咖啡减少。同样是咖啡,同样受到咖啡影响健康报道的冲击,specialty types却没减少,说明不是这个(影响健康)原因。(同因异果削弱)
E, 价格增加,也就是说要用价格增加推得消费减少不是因为影响健康,而是因为价格增加。这个好像犯了根据常识做逻辑题的错误。为什么价格增加一定能推得消费下降?即便这是像一个星期有七天这种常识性公理我们可以引用,它也不是绝对的啊。经济学里面知道价格提高不一定导致消费减少,因为还与消费弹性有关。
这是充分必要条件问题。价格下降可能导致消费减少,而不是一定导致。

不知道大家同意我的看法么
Key E, I choose C

沙发
发表于 2006-7-23 03:41:00 | 只看该作者

C is not right b/c it says special types of coffee sales didn't drop. from there we don't know how special the coffee is, maybe only b/c it is caffeine free. So C is irrelevant.

E is the answer.

板凳
 楼主| 发表于 2006-7-23 09:28:00 | 只看该作者
Thanks for your explanation.
I haven't seen any coffee without caffeine, hehe.
Well, your support of E means you take it for granted that price increase will definitely lead to demand decrease, while for those who have never learnt Micro-economics, they cannot get the clue why. What I wanna say is it's a kind of general knowledge in our daily life, which cannot be used as logical reasoning.
地板
发表于 2006-7-23 09:40:00 | 只看该作者
You are right, the ETS tries hard to minimize the influence from daily life knowledge, but something it can not do so freely. 
5#
 楼主| 发表于 2006-7-23 10:03:00 | 只看该作者
But I still cannot figure out why C is wrong. From C we get that the general decline is caused by the decline of regular brands, while, which means specialty types haven't been influenced by  the adverse public report. NOTE that the adverse public report doesn't point out which kind of coffee is health-harmful and which kind is caffeine-free, and I think this report should have GENERAL impact on all kinds of coffee if the public awareness of harmful effects of caffeine really attributed to the decline of the sale of coffee.
[此贴子已经被作者于2006-7-23 10:04:54编辑过]
6#
发表于 2006-7-23 10:10:00 | 只看该作者

C. Sales of specialty types of coffee have held steady as sales of regular brands have declined.

Since C doesn't point out exactly why the special brand holds steady, there are hence so many possibilites here: maybe it is caffeine free, maybe it is buy one get one free, maybe.... As a result, we can not go any further from here.

7#
发表于 2006-7-23 10:13:00 | 只看该作者
以下是引用kallyli在2006-7-23 0:40:00的发言:

OG11-44
In the last decade there has been a significant decrease in coffee consumption. During this same time, there has been increasing publicity about the caffeine in coffee's adverse long-term effects on health. Therefore, the decrease in coffee consumption must have been caused by consumers' awareness of the harmful effects of caffeine.
A. On average , people consume 30 percent less coffee today than they did 10 years ago.
B. Heavy coffee drinkers may have mild withdrawal symptoms, such as headaches, for a day or so after significantly decreasing their coffee consumption.
C. Sales of specialty types of coffee have held steady as sales of regular brands have declined.
D. The consumption of fruit juices and caffeinefree herval teas has incrased over the past decade.
E. Coffee prices increased steadily in the past decade because of unusually severe frosts in coffee-growing nations.


E, 价格增加,也就是说要用价格增加推得消费减少不是因为影响健康,而是因为价格增加。这个好像犯了根据常识做逻辑题的错误。为什么价格增加一定能推得消费下降?即便这是像一个星期有七天这种常识性公理我们可以引用,它也不是绝对的啊。经济学里面知道价格提高不一定导致消费减少,因为还与消费弹性有关。
这是充分必要条件问题。价格下降可能导致消费减少,而不是一定导致。

不知道大家同意我的看法么
Key E, I choose C

我觉的E说的也许不是LZ理解的那层意思。

E说咖啡价格再过去纪念的持续增长是因为咖啡生产国“不同寻常”的严厉的冻结。即咖啡生产国卖出的咖啡总数少了,所以造成了过去几年的价格持续上升。再通俗点讲是“供少于求”造成的。现在咖啡价格的回落,是balance的体现,而不是所谓健康广告的效应。即他因削弱。

你说的C:一个行业的整体回落,做不到,每家企业都回落。

举个例子:reuglar brand是百年老厂,受到健康广告的冲击,销量减少70000包咖啡;一个specility brand刚刚开业,同样也受到了健康广告的冲击,但是还是有销量的,但是只有500包。可整个行业是受到了siginificant decrease,而原因就是健康广告。

再举个例子:全球经济疲软,许多国家贸易量下降,与此同时美元贬值。因此得出结论,是由于美元贬值造成的全球经济疲软、贸易量下降。
问削弱
答案C:中国在猛烈发展,贸易量上升 ;其他一些老牌经济强国在下降
答案E:过去十年,全球经济过热
LZ选哪个呢?

8#
 楼主| 发表于 2006-7-23 11:00:00 | 只看该作者
以下是引用mbz在2006-7-23 10:10:00的发言:

C. Sales of specialty types of coffee have held steady as sales of regular brands have declined.

Since C doesn't point out exactly why the special brand holds steady, there are hence so many possibilites here: maybe it is caffeine free, maybe it is buy one get one free, maybe.... As a result, we can not go any further from here.

Thanks for your patience, 非常感谢
Yes, what you said is " We don't know why special brand holds steady" which means other reasons may possiblely influence its sales and it is not exactly because of the public awareness of the consumers. It just weakens the argument.

cry... I cannot get out of it! help me...

9#
 楼主| 发表于 2006-7-23 11:01:00 | 只看该作者
以下是引用gonghao在2006-7-23 10:13:00的发言:

我觉的E说的也许不是LZ理解的那层意思。

E说咖啡价格再过去纪念的持续增长是因为咖啡生产国“不同寻常”的严厉的冻结。即咖啡生产国卖出的咖啡总数少了,所以造成了过去几年的价格持续上升。再通俗点讲是“供少于求”造成的。现在咖啡价格的回落,是balance的体现,而不是所谓健康广告的效应。即他因削弱。

你说的C:一个行业的整体回落,做不到,每家企业都回落。

举个例子:reuglar brand是百年老厂,受到健康广告的冲击,销量减少70000包咖啡;一个specility brand刚刚开业,同样也受到了健康广告的冲击,但是还是有销量的,但是只有500包。可整个行业是受到了siginificant decrease,而原因就是健康广告。

再举个例子:全球经济疲软,许多国家贸易量下降,与此同时美元贬值。因此得出结论,是由于美元贬值造成的全球经济疲软、贸易量下降。
问削弱
答案C:中国在猛烈发展,贸易量上升 ;其他一些老牌经济强国在下降
答案E:过去十年,全球经济过热
LZ选哪个呢?

我要晕死了,这个题搞得我星期天早上都不得安生,还连累gonghao牛牛

首先,题目中把coffee分成regular brand和specility brand, 那么你举的例子也应该这么分类。应该改成:
全球经济疲软,许多国家贸易量下降,与此同时美元贬值。因此得出结论,是由于美元贬值造成的全球经济疲软、贸易量下降。
问削弱
答案C:社会主义阵营在猛烈发展,贸易量上升 ;资本主义阵营贸易量下降
答案E:过去十年,全球经济过热

为什么?中国只是特例,不能反映整体原因。题目分类不是特例,而是代表一类brand的产品。
那么上面这个题我觉得C是对的。既然全球疲软,为什么社会主义国家没受到影响,只能说不是因为全球疲软,而是另有其他原因。

你觉得另一个例子我也不明白,一家生产specilty brand的店刚开业?这也太特殊了吧,就这一家店刚开业,总不能所有生产specilty brand的店都刚开业吧,也总不能就这一家店生产specilty brand吧?即便有这么一家店,如果其他所有specilty brand的店都是保持稳定销售量,还是可以削弱的啊。
你对E的解释有一个小地方我不认同,不过不影响解题,就是那个frost应该就是自然灾害霜冻,好像没有抽象的意思。不过我也认为E是说(自然灾害造成)供少于求,但是它还是要用到常识:供小于求-价格上升-需求减少。况且我认为价格上升不一定需求减少啊,如果消费者都很有钱,根本不在乎这点提价,怎么办?
我认为E错主要是因为它是常识推理,不符合逻辑推理要求。
我不知道您说的“价格回落”是什么,这个题目里好像没有提到现在价格又回落了啊。
谢谢你哦,每次答题都那么详尽,占用你那么多时间,真是过意不去。

10#
发表于 2006-7-23 11:12:00 | 只看该作者

kallyli & gonghao

looks like this dicussion is promoting me into 黑侠, hehe....

I wonder why it is not white knight.


[此贴子已经被作者于2006-7-23 11:13:56编辑过]
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