我心目中的牛人 zt - 一片老文章，但是有助于鼓舞士气

suncola

以下是引用lucsh在2005-2-25 23:38:00的发言：

楼主小妹太过奖了,我绝对不是牛人,我知道你是即将步如COLUMBIA的高材生.而我现只有GEORGETOWN的OFFER.NYU也不大可能要我了.所以从这点看,我才站在不牛人的角度考虑问题,聊以自我安慰一下.

其实我知道你是站在牛人角度安慰一下大家.当然你可能不愿这样被别人认为带有俯视关心的感觉,但潜意识中有这种感觉.(我是业余心理学家).不过我知道你是好意.

首先我从没认为自己是牛人。坛子上有无数被真正的牛校录取的人，如果按照录取学校来判断这人牛不牛，我还没有资格称牛的。而且我的观点是不要用录取学校来判断牛不牛，就更加不会因为被录取了就觉得自己牛，还来站在牛人的角度。希望我们不要用这个角度来相互判断。

I feel sort of hurt by your words. 如果我没有被录取，是不是我说出这些话来就不是带有俯视的关心？还是我被录取，就是失去了鼓励别人的权利？世界上还是存在一些追求真正平等和不愿炫耀的人，我自己正在向这个方向努力（理想是有一天马路工人可以和公司CEO一样受到人格尊重，说起来有点夸张，但现在的社会似乎离这个还有一段距离）。我的判断标准也很简单，只要我做的事情可以帮助到一些人，我就会去做。也许不应该计较太多，问心无愧最重要。得到一些共鸣，看到一些CDer各抒己见，是最开心的了。

按照心理学理论和实践，请告诉我应该怎么做。谢谢。因为我不愿被误解。看来我这个贴子贴得不好，呵呵。得罪了牛校录取的人——人家千辛万苦的申请到了好学校，我却偏要说牛校录了不一定牛；也得罪了没有录取的人——给人站着说话不腰疼的感觉。我应该反思，是不是我的表达方式有问题？帮助我吧，lucsh?

lucsh

以下是引用suncola在2005-2-26 2:34:00的发言：

首先我从没认为自己是牛人。坛子上有无数被真正的牛校录取的人，如果按照录取学校来判断这人牛不牛，我还没有资格称牛的。而且我的观点是不要用录取学校来判断牛不牛，就更加不会因为被录取了就觉得自己牛，还来站在牛人的角度。希望我们不要用这个角度来相互判断。

I feel sort of hurt by your words. 如果我没有被录取，是不是我说出这些话来就不是带有俯视的关心？还是我被录取，就是失去了鼓励别人的权利？世界上还是存在一些追求真正平等和不愿炫耀的人，我自己正在向这个方向努力（理想是有一天马路工人可以和公司CEO一样受到人格尊重，说起来有点夸张，但现在的社会似乎离这个还有一段距离）。我的判断标准也很简单，只要我做的事情可以帮助到一些人，我就会去做。也许不应该计较太多，问心无愧最重要。得到一些共鸣，看到一些CDer各抒己见，是最开心的了。

按照心理学理论和实践，请告诉我应该怎么做。谢谢。因为我不愿被误解。看来我这个贴子贴得不好，呵呵。得罪了牛校录取的人——人家千辛万苦的申请到了好学校，我却偏要说牛校录了不一定牛；也得罪了没有录取的人——给人站着说话不腰疼的感觉。我应该反思，是不是我的表达方式有问题？帮助我吧，lucsh?

Oh,come on.Pls don't be hurt by my unprofessional psychological analysis.

我知道你的本意绝对是好的.你没问题,绝对没有.我是业余的心理学家,所以可以原谅的.

祝你签证顺利! 美国见.

funnytiger

有一点我同意, 不是每个出了国的PHD学生都是优秀的人才, 就象不是每个上TOP MBA的都是优秀人才一样. 中国教育制度的畸形, 不用我说大家都知道. 但是原文所说的这位PHD能拿到美国大学AP的OFFER, 已经证明此人不俗. 在中国生存, 一般很少有安全感, 不然各位也不用上这个坛子和浪费钞票去申请MBA了. 在美国,  你不再需要把别人踩下去而获得生存权, 人生观自然不一样. 这也不难解释. 很多人工资不高, 却挺开心的原因了.

当然, 以上说法不适合在WALL STREET上的兄弟. 没办法, 谁叫大家都想要你们碗里的东西呢

suncola

are you waiting for me or just happen to be here? So cool to see your answer quickly.

If you are in Beijing, why don't we meet in Visa Prepartion Forum on CD and probably the embassy?  I will definitely meet you in the states.

badmedirtyyou

I understand the perspectives from everyone. But when you are in states, after you are in job market, your views will change. I know a lot of PHD forced to go to wall street after they failed to secure a tenure position. You make money so what? you spend all your time overtime all the time and you do not have any protection. You can be laid off or you can be fired. That is why faculty postions are considerably preferred in Chinese students.

vagabond

>>然而他（她）们生活的并不快乐！对知识、科技的进步并没有真正的兴趣！<<

Just be curious, how do you know that generalization? Just attended an MIT c-function yesterday. I found all students are extremely happy there and most importantly, they're very confident in what they are doing. Yet, by your standards, they should be very upset. BTW, at C-level in millions of fortune-500000-esques, nearly all are guys like you said "他（她）们生活的并不快乐！对知识、科技的进步并没有真正的兴趣！" In other words, more than 80% of total global economy is controlled by you-said unhappy guys, even in those enterprises whose wealth was accumulated by you-said happy guys like Warren Buffett across the earth. And I also found Tsinghuaees are governing the Chinese government at the very high levels: president, governors, and the like. And nearly all McKinseyees are you-said unhappy guys who are actually issuing advices to millions of CEO’s around the world on a daily basis. Nearly All PE/VC shops on Wall Street were founded by HBSee-likes. American President graduated from Yale and HBS. Chinese President now seems to be from Tsinghua. Just name a few from a statistical angle.

When most common people can't reach others' success highness, the typical stances they pick is to "sort of envy", more or less, especially using word of mouth. Statistically, I found "the higher a person's past achievements, the higher his/her future accomplishments" and Mavericks like Bill Gates only account for a few, very insignificant in statistical sense. Even so, Bill Gates also emerged from Harvard University and his company hired tens of thousands of you-said unhappy guys: MBA grads, marketing experts, Ph.D's, top college graduates and the like.

I don't want to deny a fact that some guys with past huge achievements go downhill form time to time, but if you want to generalize a point of view, the best way is to use statistical data to substantiate it: the enough sampling issue. Have you taken a GMAT test? I just wonder, it's a basic logical thought that GMAT must test you and you should have in your mind.

[此贴子已经被作者于2005-2-26 7:40:09编辑过]

vagabond

Suppose this lady mentioned above in the article were to be in a professor position at Tsinghua University in China, would you guys think she is a NN or not?

I have a friend who couldn't land a serious job in the United States all the time for several years, so she only jumped into post-Doc positions commanding $25K~30K a year from school to school, mainly in third-tier ones. But when she moved back to China, she immediately got an offer from a top university in Shanghai. It's a real story. And she got her Ph.D degree at a third-tier US university and shortly after the commencement she gave births to her two ABC sons. Do you think she's a NN or not?

badmedirtyyou

This is ridiculous. I tried to post something and I can't. Anyway, I understand everybody's perspectives. But when you are in US and after you graduated and am in the job market, you will change your views. There is too much competition going on. Who the hell do we think we are. That is why wall street jobs are really not enticing due to their heavy overtime and unstability and faculty job is life time and chinese students like it.

tuzq

这里一定要帮suncola说两句。

首先，suncola绝对是个好MM。我是在CD上认识她的，之后经常讨论essays, application, career goal, and even life goal. 她的industry是典型的aggressive的industry,但是和她接触这么久，我发现她非常非常的平易近人， 而且特别热心，我记得有一次谈我的essay,她让我打她手机，一直打了3个小时左右。我想她发这篇文章的动机也是希望contribute something to others。

其次，我觉得文章的内容非常好。我想如果我看见了这篇文章，我也会发的。我的观点可能比作者和suncola还要偏激。1）MBA只是获取成功的一个不错的途径；2）MBA最多是短期的成功，和你的career甚至是人生的成功比起来;3）成功没有定义，能够给出定义的只有你自己。如果你把成功的定义权给了别人，也行，但是是否有些迷失了自己？4）不可控因素太多了，务以成败论英雄。

just my $2%。