og13-114 starfish，with。。。求拍砖指教！！！

猪小王

emmahiggins09 发表于 2017-1-6 08:39
嗯，我的理解和层住理解的不太一样。

首先要看sometimes 这个词的位置发生了变化，B中sometimes 修饰右 ...

我修改了之前的解释，希望能说明白。sometimes究竟该修饰noun还是preposition，这点我和你理解一样。with or by我觉得不能直接破题。AND可以破题，因为C中growing这个modifier让句子意思变了。

Barron1234

我是从意思的角度理解的：1）何为replace，一个换一个叫replace，数量上不对等谈不上replace；2）所以原文想表达的意思是，一个arm断了会replace一个，但是呢sometimes由于他的overcompensating，甚至还会多长出一、两个arm；
B选项one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two；（就是以上粗体的意思）
C选项they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating，growing an extra one or two（意思掉了一个arm会replace，这种replace的方式有时是通过overcompensating的“意思是莫非有时还通过其他方式？”，会多长一个或两个，既然多长怎么还叫replace？）

浅薄见解，欢迎拍砖！

猪小王

yakev6 发表于 2012-12-1 22:21
个人感觉ACE中sometimes的位置不好BD 中sometimes是作为adv修饰overcompensating and growing ： 有时候 ...

同意！               

GXN233

lalapiao 发表于 2012-12-3 17:08
[quote]个人觉得BY和WITH在这里用法都正确，GMAT论坛上说BY不适合用在主动句中，这跟WITH不适合用在被动句 ...

我觉得c里面the animal overcompensating ， growing an extra one or two可以理解为，后面的growing 表示overcompensating的结果

778807

http://www.beatthegmat.com/starfish-t117546.html

Please please underline the relevant portion of the sentence when you post. To do so, highlight the portion and click the "u" symbol above the text box.

Think about the story: Starfish (plural) have a certain ability: if they lose an arm, another one grows in its place. In fact, sometimes the animal overcompensates for the loss by growing extra arms. Note that the last idea (the animal overcompensates) is not an explanation of how the arm is replaced, but rather a side note about what sometimes happens along with the replacement of the arm.

Now that we have a clear idea of the intended meaning, let's go through the choices.

A) "it replaces it" is not right since starfish is used in the plural here (we know because of the plural verb "have" earlier). In addition, it's not ideal to link the two ideas with "by" as though the animal replaces the arm by overcompensating. As noted above, the overcompensation is a possible side effect rather than how the arm is replaced.

B) Passive voice ("one arm is lost" and "one arm is replaced" are both passive). This doesn't automatically make a sentence wrong, but raises a flag. Otherwise, I don't have any problem with B

C) Like A, this answer links the ideas with "by" as though the starfish replaces its arm by overcompensating. This doesn't fit the intended story.

D)"they are quickly replaced" is incorrect since "they" cannot refer to the singular arm that was lost.

E) See Additional notes below.

Additional notes:
(1) In addition, unlike A and B, which tell us "with/by the animal overcompensating and growing extra arms", C through E tell us "with/by the animal overcompensating, growing extra arms". The linkage in A and B is more appropriate since these actions occur in sequence. The animal indeed overcompensates and grows extra arms. This can be used to eliminate C, D and E

(2) A, D and E break the flow of the sentence by having a mismatch of active and passive voice in the condition and consequence. A is passive->active (if one arm is lost it replaces it) while D and E are active->passive (if they lose one arm it is quickly replaced). Ideally, both clauses would be active ("if they lose one arm they quickly replace it" as in C). The next best option is to have two passive options ("if one arm is lost it is quickly replaced"). This can be used to eliminate A, D, and E

小题目叔叔

我也选了c，但是感觉这题其实是不是在考伴随的用法，因为曼哈顿语法有说过不要连着用两个长修饰词组来修饰一个主句？b把两个ing用and连起来就变成一个修饰从句了？

黄苏打

琳二 发表于 2016-1-8 16:39
理解了半天，终于明白了B和C的区别。还是应该从理解文义来下手。B是说，如果starfish的一只手臂A lost，那 ...

同意！               

einfucs

Mark一下！               

程诗琦

请问一下这题为什么可以用被动语态呀？我的想法是，被动语态省略了动作的合理发出者，和前面的句子就没有联系了，求各位NN解答！谢谢啦！

Jinnjenny23

关于by和with, 赞同前面#34层主的看法，下面摘自Ron的关于这类结构的解释

In the construction "Prepostion + Noun + Verb-ing"
1. If the “VERB-ing” is the intended object of the preposition, then this construction is incorrect.
e.g.
There is no evidence of my brother stealing the candy.
- This is incorrect: we want evidence of his STEALING, not “evidence of my brother”

2. If the focus of the construction is the ACTION, then you must use the POSSESIVE form for the noun/pronoun preceding the “-ing” participle.
e.g.
There is no evidence of my brother’s stealing the candy. – Correct
选项A,C中的by the animal overcompensating, 实际上overcompensating才是by的object，所以这个结构不正确。

但B,D,E中的with the animal overcompensating不也是上面的结构，为什么正确？下面是摘自Ron对with用法的解释：
1. ‘With’ can be used with NOUN or NOUN equivalent
2. 'With' can be  used with an __ING form to represent circumstances that are contemporaneous with the action described in the main clause. PS. Other prepositions can only be used with NOUN or NOUN equivalent.

The clearest example of this special usage is in the non-underlined part of og12 problem 29:
OG Example – OG12 29
The end of the eighteenth century saw the emergence of prize-stock breeding, with individual bulls and cows receiving awards, fetching unprecedented prices, and exciting enormous interest whenever they were put on show.

with individual bulls and cows receiving awards, fetching unprecedented prices, and exciting enormous interest

This usage directly violates the principles for the use of other prepositions -- specifically, "with + noun + VERBing" is allowed even though the VERBing, rather than the noun, is the intended object of "with". (i.e., in the sentence above, prize-stock breeding was not "with bulls and cows" -- it was specifically with prizes awarded to these animals.)

This is veeeerrry interesting, since identical constructions with other prepositions are definitely incorrect. for instance, I've never heard of people biting dogs is incorrect, because the intended object of the preposition is the action (the biting) rather than the noun ("people"); instead, one could write i've never heard that people have bitten dogs.

A similar usage can be found in og12 #23, with a past participle rather than an ING form ("with its weight concentrated...")
OG Example: OG12 23
In a previous design, the weight of the discus used in track competition is concentrated in a metal center-but now it is lined with lead around the perimeter, thereby improving stability in flight and resulting in longer throws.

Correct Answer
(C) Once designed with its weight concentrated in a metal center, the discus used in track competition is now

So, it is confirmed: "with" has its own special set of rules, independent of (and contradictory to) the rules for other prepositions.

希望能给大家的理解带来帮助