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[校友答疑] Ask Jason@沃顿 (my essays inside!) Free essay advice again~

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 楼主| 发表于 2010-1-6 00:27:28 | 显示全部楼层

Are business school students 'students' or 'customers'?

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/are-they-students-or-customers/
发表于 2010-1-10 14:34:14 | 显示全部楼层
*thumbs up*

I like what you wrote here, reminds me of the theme from the story of Oedipus the King and Oedipus @ Colonus by Sophocles.

Zoolantz> Yes, that's my point. The true 'differentiation' is not to show that you are special, but to show self-knowledge. In my case, I know I'm young, and I know there are parts of me that are immature. But you can't rush growing up, and while I need to be aware of my weaknesses, I also can try to view them as strengths. However, this is true of someone of any age. An older person views those younger as immature. A younger person view older people as stubborn, because once one gets older one has more experience, but that experience sets one in his/her ways so he/she finds it harder to learn new things. So regardless of our age, it is an eternal process in understanding our own strengths and weaknesses, and in learning from others at different stages of their lives, both to remind us what we once were but have now given up (and perhaps now being the time to reconsider whether you should revisit that), but also to learn from different individuals who think differently. I may be younger than you, but that's not the only thing that defines my thoughts. I am from a certain country, a certain background, a certain family.. So yes, we look at people younger than us and that reminds us of ourselves at an earlier age, but even then we have much to learn from how they are different from us not just in age alone.

This is the whole point of diversity, and why it is valued in schools. Most people think, "I am diverse because I am unique, because I can contribute this or that". That's not true. Everyone is unique. In fact, diversity becomes useful when the opposite happens. When people think, "I have strengths, but I also have weaknesses. Looking at others can remind me of myself, which is a good learning experience, but others are also different individuals, and I should try to see things from their perspective." If everyone thinks this way, then diversity will have value. If everyone thinks, "I am diverse in this way.. come and learn from me", then there will be no need for diversity because nobody will be learning from others.
PS, this is why schools seldom ask you, 'how will you add to diversity', with a view to seeing you say, "I am special in the following ways..". They don't do this because: 1) that is what the resume is for. 2) how you are special is something THEY decide, not you. Many students I've met try to differentiate themselves from other Chinese applicants, not realising that in the mind of the adcom.. "I am not typical Chinese" may not be diverse, because perhaps they are exactly looking for a classic Chinese applicant, because that will look most 'diverse' within the entire class? Anyway, even this is speculation. I'm jus tsaying you can't second-guess what they are looking for. 3) Indeed, perhaps the biggest problem is that they're not even 'looking' for any one profile in the first place.

So, instead they focus on finding out what kind of an introspective person you are, so they'll know if you can contribute to an environment where diversity will have educational value.
Here is an article from the NYTimes you may find interesting. They mention the accepting of diversity of viewpoints being very important for an older adult, in order to learn.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/education/edlife/03adult-t.html
Quote: "Teaching new facts should not be the focus of adult education, she says. Instead, continued brain development and a richer form of learning may require that you “bump up against people and ideas” that are different. In a history class, that might mean reading multiple viewpoints, and then prying open brain networks by reflecting on how what was learned has changed your view of the world."

iceccn> I would choose the other supervisor. Always go with the person with more vivid stories to tell. You can always explain it in the optional essay by saying.. "The one who provides the recommendation letter for me is my cross supervisor in the company's structure, but has had much more interaction with me than my direct supervisor. My previous direct supervisor has left the firm; my new direct supervisor has just arrived and doesn't know me well yet. " (These are your words )
-- by 会员 jelt2359 (2010/1/3 3:53:50)


On self-knowledge. To achieve self-knowledge, it is crucial to have a pure heart. Once upon a time, we were all pure in certain stage of our lives. But we experienced and were polished by the external influences and forces. No wonder in the forecourt of Temple of Apollo at Delphi, the phrase "Know Thyself" is inscribed there. To some extent, it is the highest realization of any individual. As you pointed out correctly, "it is an eternal process in understanding our own strengths and weaknesses"

Besides knowing how to differentiate our true selves philosophically, I think a more practical way is to apply our brainstorming results to paper. And do so in a frank way.
-- by 会员 topmba2009 (2010/1/3 4:07:42)
 楼主| 发表于 2010-1-10 20:04:02 | 显示全部楼层

正反合 thinking at business schools

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/business/10mba.html?hp

This is why Rotman was my second-choice school after Wharton.
 楼主| 发表于 2010-1-11 09:52:22 | 显示全部楼层

Respond to toyvicky's take on Admissions Consulting

Toyvicky wrote this on his thread, original here: http://forum.chasedream.com/North_American_MBA/thread-432142-1-1.html

"已经给前5个留言。 如果没收到 PING 我。 希望有些用, 再多说几句, 每个人对ADMISSION CONSULTING 的看法不同, 学校都是不支持的, 但是就像我们高考, 牛人一样可以考状元, 上不上补习班都一样, 如果有新东方可以帮你GMAT,ADMISSION CONSULTING 也是如此。

这些绝不是给自己拉客户 ,做广告, 我们收的都是美元价, 换算成人民币不是大家愿意负担的, 所以我们的中国客户都是读EXECUTIVE MBA 的。

这里有很多有用的信息, 我的总体感受是, 就象GMAT一样, 道理大家都懂, 就是不能人人上700. 你要如何把大家都知道的黄金定律做成一个突出自己特色, 和符合学校特色的PACKAGE, 那是你自己的造化。 这才是ADMISSION CONSULTING 的VALUE 所在。"

I have a different take on this. Perhaps when toyvicky had worked with EMBAs, they are a lot more confident of themselves because of maturity and age. Even then, my EMBA friends have found the process to be a great one for self-reflection and self-discovery.

I think it far more important to learn about who you are. This is easier said than done, which is why virtually all schools ask for it. The "Why abc" school is important, but that too is part of the process of understanding what YOU want from a school, as opposed to sticking to vague notions of "alumni" and "brand".

It is all a process of self-discovery. I believe that the value in admission consulting, or as I tend to do, answering questions here, is that sometimes it takes an external party to cut through your own confusion, to help you see something that you missed. Which is why I always like to begin with this first question: why shouldn't you do an MBA? In my mind, a successful advisor will end up having maybe 30-40% of the people who go to him, ultimately deciding NOT to do an MBA. After having cut through their own confusion, I believe that more people than actually dare to admit to themselves, may find that an MBA is not suitable for them after all. Unfortunately, if everyone believes that there is a 黄金定律, and the aim is to 做成一个突出自己特色, in order to make a 符合学校特色的PACKAGE, then you have not very honestly and critically questioned your own assumptions. Such confusion is very very easy to pick out, and I've seen it in many a set of essays- many times by people who then get dinged, and have no idea why they've been dinged, since they've spent so much time on their essays. These people have also frequently consulted many application consultants, many alumni- basically, tried to get the answer of 'who am I?' from other people. Not surprisingly, it often doesn't work.

It is extremely difficult for me sometimes to tell them that they really need to question their assumption that business school is right for them, since they've been so focused on 'execution' that they've forgotten, "to what end?".

Like I said, this probably applies a lot more to the MBA crowd than the EMBA crowd that toyvicky refers to. The EMBA prospective students I've met tend to be a lot more clear about what they want and need.

Jason
发表于 2010-1-23 05:15:45 | 显示全部楼层
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/business/10mba.html?hp

This is why Rotman was my second-choice school after Wharton.
-- by 会员 jelt2359 (2010/1/10 20:04:02)


Have you read Roger Martin's new book about integrative thinking for future MBA education?
 楼主| 发表于 2010-1-23 14:20:41 | 显示全部楼层
Yes. Actually most of it was quite obvious to me But then... they didn't need to convince me of the merits of this to begin with, so I'm probably not a good gauge of whether this is a good book.
发表于 2010-1-23 21:08:08 | 显示全部楼层

发现这个,先UP再仔细看

发表于 2010-1-24 01:14:46 | 显示全部楼层
Yes. Actually most of it was quite obvious to me But then... they didn't need to convince me of the merits of this to begin with, so I'm probably not a good gauge of whether this is a good book.
-- by 会员 jelt2359 (2010/1/23 14:20:41)


I found it interesting to compare Rotman's "integrated thinking" with Duke Fuqua's "interscholastic approach" (seen in recent McKinsey interview with Blair Sheppard). To me, they are more of the same strategy with different names - Rotman's is a micro-approach while Duke's a more macro-approach. Not sure how each program executes their philosophies in detail. But I agree with Barry Mitnick in the debate on Case Method that "Assurance-of-Doing" is much needed on top of "Assurance-of-Learning". Much thinking without proper backup from hands-on practice is a waste.
 楼主| 发表于 2010-1-24 05:13:08 | 显示全部楼层
Some find practice easier, some find thinking easier. But yes, both are essential.
 楼主| 发表于 2010-1-24 05:21:55 | 显示全部楼层
I had the following debate with windboy in another thread, here. http://forum.chasedream.com/North_American_MBA/thread-432500-3-1.html
-------
him: "it is not wise to draw conclusions purely on the basis of your personal experiences/stories, etc. you will need to look at the mba population as a whole and do some statistical analysis to draw any meanful conclusion, rather than any other methods else. of course, the data are really hard to come by.

anyway, i think it makes sense that mba program, as a whole, will NOT be a loser's game, if you look at the supply and demand of mbas-to-be, if we assume that people are avearage rational investors. therefore, it is really simple to know the answer, even without using any sophisticated statisitcal analysis..."
-------
me: "Sure. Sometimes you need to be able to draw the right conclusions after making assumptions- there, statistical analyses helps. But you always need to understand what the right assumptions are. What makes you think that 'people', and particularly 'the mba population', are average rational investors?

Besides, I will never forget what Steven Levitt told us in class one fine day in Chicago. What matters TO YOU is not the 'average' investor, but the 'marginal' investor. Data collection not withstanding, looking at others can sometimes be the completely wrong gauge of what you should be thinking about. I think even the most traditional economist will disagree that the following chain of logic (which is what you are suggesting) is right: 'people are average rational investors' -> 'i am a person' -> 'therefore i MUST be an average rational investor, because I must be the average'.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's wrong to look at others. In many cases, people should do more looking at others. Unfortunately when it comes to business school, however, my experience is that most people do too much looking at others, and do not do enough looking at themselves. Maybe you are the opposite- which still supports my conclusion that everyone should and must decide for themselves."
---------
him: "i am now really surprised that you were trained in chicago, as your comments sound more like typical wharton grads i have come across, quite a few..than from chicago, where Lucas is the god father for rationalism/expectation...

steve is very smart/renowned micro-economist and i won't argue sth abt some basic stuff from econ101. anyone with decent training in statistics/econometrics will understand my previous comments, which of course involves nothing technicality, which i didn't bother to include. my comments before were more of a methodolgy suggestion, rather going into details of explaining how to set up your regression equations and calibration methods with MCMC or gmm (check it out on Hansen's page if gmm doesn't ring a bell or google gibbs sampling algorithm if you don't understand MCMC.)

i made my comments before as some of the comments on this thread were becoming too philosophical, with too good rethorics to have much practical relevance.. anyway, won't waste too much time as still lots of work to do today even it is saturday, sign...

the bottom line of my suggestion: mba from a top school is sth will highly likely to change your life/career. so don't give it up if you have an offer. it is like a simple trading rule: you will have higher probability of being up while the downside is limited. The risk/return profile of an mba is very good."

---------






I would like to comment (or more accurately, vent). We obviously have different opinions. Fine. No problem. What I find difficult to accept is being challenged that "I was trained in Chicago", especially when someone doesn't know me, and sends off replies rapidly because they "don't want to waste too much time because they have lots of work to do, even on a Saturday sigh". Guess what- the world doesn't revolve around you.

I too have work to do. I too treasure my time. I volunteer it- I give it- because I respect the opinions and dreams of others here, and try to help you along the way. I will never make a comment like "I am only saying this quickly" because I understand that every comment I make will be scrutinised. And so I am careful with my words. After all, these are all your dreams we're talking about. I want to respect you, and the best way to do that is to consider carefully your comments, and respond appropriately.

That aside, I also do not appreciate the personal attacks on whether I deserve to be at Wharton, Chicago, or anywhere else. If you read this, Windboy: you may be smarter than me, particularly when it comes to Statistics. But I do not think that that gives you the right to pretend to know me, judge me, and thereafter criticise me, based on a couple of comments that I've made.

It's hurtful when things like that happen. But maybe I'm just too sensitive. Perhaps a better person than I would not have been affected.

Jason
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