Ask Jason@沃顿 (my essays inside!) Free essay advice again~

Zoolantz

Hi Jason, I find your posts fascinating.  I especially enjoy reading about your thoughts on making more money versus doing something enjoyable but make less.  You kept saying 'we'.  Which group were you referring to?  MBA students without work experience? or people pursuing MBA education as a whole?  I was a bit confused there.

Just a quick comment on how you feel you (people with no pre-MBA work experience) tend to have similar view on internship and expectation in a MBA with people with >10 yrs exp.  In my opinion, it all comes down to money.  Those older folks probably are pretty well off.  My guess is that they probably had some entrepreneurial experiences and just wanting to recharge and work on something even bigger after graduating from Wharton.  Well, on the other end, you young kids fresh out of school (well, again back into school) haven't gotten a taste of the hardship of real life yet.  What is hardship you ask?  Your older peers can tell you that they are carrying sh*t load of mortgages, car loans and now $200k student loan.  That's why they doing everything they can to get that internship which subsequently can lead to the high paying job at the end to help pay off their debt.

cannedpineapple

Zoolantz, re: the UChicago essay> This essay may not work for Harvard or NorthWestern. UChicago embraces the life of the mind. An aspiring lawyer does not need to read Kierkegaard. Neither does an aspiring lawyer tend to need to write in such a passionate, poetic way; comparing UChicago to a lover that has scorned him- I expect such a style of writing will not work for a lawyer.

What makes this letter so unique, and so effective, is that 90% of applicants will not even THINK about something like that, because they will consider it 'lethal'. In fact, while this is for undergrad, I pasted it here because there is a certain honesty, a certain message that is important to understand in a business school application too- even more so, there, actually. The message here is, 'this is who I am, a weak person who needs you to complete me, and I am at your mercy. Take me as I am'. This shows amazing humility, self-awareness, and confidence- all traits that you'll need to be successful in your business school essays.

Trying to be 'creative' just because you think the adcom likes it is in fact the opposite approach. While this essay may look like it's trying to accomplish it, it is in fact effective not because he is attempting to write what the adcom wants to read. Rather, he is writing exactly what HE wants to write, and what he feels, and putting himself at the mercy of the adcom. If this means his essay is forgettable (after all, 'generic' tends to be forgettable), then so be it.

cannedpineapple

zoolantz, re: my other posts> Some of "we" refers to people in general, some refers to the poster I was responding to. I apologise for the confusion.

Age, while being correlated with wealth, does not necessarily have a direct relationship with the latter. Many of my classmates of that age have families, have mortgages- if anything, they have MORE financial need than my other classmates with less work experience.

In addition, I fully agree- looking at their experience and their needs, for instance, shows me that there is much to worry about financially in life. However, I also like to take a step back, and think about how I am part of the elite in the world. I am, in the duration of my lifetime, probably going to be an earner in the top 5-10% of the entire world. I am tremendously blessed.

While I need a way to live, and transport; I do not necessarily need to live in a mansion, I do not need a luxury car (or, really, perhaps even a car at all). These are pleasures and they are conveniences that I will surely enjoy, but I am keenly aware that there is a price to getting them. No matter what job I get out of school, I will not be bankrupt. I constantly hear my fellow classmates justify to themselves that they NEED a $200K / yr banking job to pay off their loans.. and I think, really? What happens if you live on 'only' $50K a year? Will you be bankrupt? Will you be living on the streets? Will you have not enough to feed yourself? These are extreme examples, yes, but I like to think of them, so that I have a little perspective for how blessed I am, that with my qualifications I will never have to worry on the scale that some people do, worrying about their day to day existence.

The question to answer then becomes, am I willing to give up what it takes so that I can live that much more a materially comfortable life? At least right now in my life, the answer is closer to no. I don't want to live on the streets, but I also don't need to be rich. If someone pays off their loans in 2 years, I can take 10 years, 20 years- no problem. I am not worried. Like I said, my plan is not one that extends over 1 or 2 years, but more like 10, 20 years.

Part of this naivety stems from my inexperience as a new graduate, as you have pointed out. But I see this- my greatest weakness- as also potentially a source of my greatest strength. I think many of my other classmates don't see it this way because their 'experience' of hardship; as well as their determination to overcome it; has made some of them forget how fortunate they are.

I respect your opinion that it all comes down to money. It undoubtedly does. I just have a different idea from you of how much I'll need to survive. I also believe, as you do, that this will change. My views will be tested as I begin to experience material hardship once I start working. And this, BTW, is why I think that this has been the perfect time for me to do business school. Doing it now has allowed me to be exposed and become aware of this, before my views start to change. After all, I too am just a simple person, who is strongly affected and influenced by my surroundings. In a few years, I have no doubt that I will think exactly like many of my classmates. I only hope that, having been forewarned sooner, I can remind myself at that time, to understand exactly at what level of wealth I should stop trying to get more money, in order that I can apply myself to some other things that I find meaningful.

Zoolantz

Jason, I envy your youthful thinking.  In fact, you remind me of a younger me.  Now this make me sound so old  I'm glad to see that you truly appreciate how fortunate you are.  I'm not so sure how many people here at the forum realize this.  Compare to the majority of the population, we will most certainly do well, if not exceptionally well, in life regardless the outcome of MBA applications.  I can now understand why you could make it into Wharton even without formal fulltime work experience.  I guess this is the message you have been trying to pass down.  I feel you got in because you demonstrated in your application that you truly understand your strengths and weaknesses.  You remained true to your beliefs, despite the fact that they may be viewed by someone older as immature or naive.  This must be how you successfully differentiated yourself.

iceccn

Hi Jason,
I've an urgent question regarding recommendation letter. In Wharton's application, I need to choose the relationship of recommender and applicant. The one who provides recommendation letter for me was my cross supervisor in company's structure, but had much more interaction with me than my direct supervisor (strange structure yet true...). Also, my direct supervisor has left the firm and new big boss just arrived and didn't know me well. Shall I choose direct supervisor or other supervisor in this case?
Thanks a lot!

cannedpineapple

Zoolantz> Yes, that's my point. The true 'differentiation' is not to show that you are special, but to show self-knowledge. In my case, I know I'm young, and I know there are parts of me that are immature. But you can't rush growing up, and while I need to be aware of my weaknesses, I also can try to view them as strengths. However, this is true of someone of any age. An older person views those younger as immature. A younger person view older people as stubborn, because once one gets older one has more experience, but that experience sets one in his/her ways so he/she finds it harder to learn new things. So regardless of our age, it is an eternal process in understanding our own strengths and weaknesses, and in learning from others at different stages of their lives, both to remind us what we once were but have now given up (and perhaps now being the time to reconsider whether you should revisit that), but also to learn from different individuals who think differently. I may be younger than you, but that's not the only thing that defines my thoughts. I am from a certain country, a certain background, a certain family.. So yes, we look at people younger than us and that reminds us of ourselves at an earlier age, but even then we have much to learn from how they are different from us not just in age alone.

This is the whole point of diversity, and why it is valued in schools. Most people think, "I am diverse because I am unique, because I can contribute this or that". That's not true. Everyone is unique. In fact, diversity becomes useful when the opposite happens. When people think, "I have strengths, but I also have weaknesses. Looking at others can remind me of myself, which is a good chance to reflect, but others are also different individuals, and I should try to see things from their perspective." If everyone thinks this way, then diversity will have value. If everyone thinks, "I am diverse in this way.. come and learn from me", then there will be no need for diversity because nobody will be learning from others.

PS, this is why schools seldom ask you, 'how will you add to diversity', with a view to seeing you say, "I am special in the following ways..". They don't do this because: 1) that is what the resume is for. 2) how you are special is something THEY decide, not you. Many students I've met try to differentiate themselves from other Chinese applicants, not realising that in the mind of the adcom.. "I am not typical Chinese" may not be diverse, because perhaps they are exactly looking for a classic Chinese applicant, because that will look most 'diverse' within the entire class? Anyway, even this is speculation. I'm just saying you can't second-guess what they are looking for. 3) Indeed, perhaps the biggest problem is that they're not even 'looking' for any one profile in the first place.

So, instead they focus on finding out what kind of an introspective person you are, so they'll know if you can contribute to an environment where diversity will have educational value.

Here is an article from the NYTimes you may find interesting. They mention the accepting of diversity of viewpoints being very important for an older adult, in order to learn.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/education/edlife/03adult-t.html
Quote: "Teaching new facts should not be the focus of adult education, she says. Instead, continued brain development and a richer form of learning may require that you “bump up against people and ideas” that are different. In a history class, that might mean reading multiple viewpoints, and then prying open brain networks by reflecting on how what was learned has changed your view of the world."

iceccn> I would choose the other supervisor. Always go with the person with more vivid stories to tell. You can always explain it in the optional essay by saying.. "The one who provides the recommendation letter for me is my cross supervisor in the company's structure, but has had much more interaction with me than my direct supervisor. My previous direct supervisor has left the firm; my new direct supervisor has just arrived and doesn't know me well yet. " (These are your words )

topmba2009

Zoolantz> Yes, that's my point. The true 'differentiation' is not to show that you are special, but to show self-knowledge. In my case, I know I'm young, and I know there are parts of me that are immature. But you can't rush growing up, and while I need to be aware of my weaknesses, I also can try to view them as strengths. However, this is true of someone of any age. An older person views those younger as immature. A younger person view older people as stubborn, because once one gets older one has more experience, but that experience sets one in his/her ways so he/she finds it harder to learn new things. So regardless of our age, it is an eternal process in understanding our own strengths and weaknesses, and in learning from others at different stages of their lives, both to remind us what we once were but have now given up (and perhaps now being the time to reconsider whether you should revisit that), but also to learn from different individuals who think differently. I may be younger than you, but that's not the only thing that defines my thoughts. I am from a certain country, a certain background, a certain family.. So yes, we look at people younger than us and that reminds us of ourselves at an earlier age, but even then we have much to learn from how they are different from us not just in age alone.

This is the whole point of diversity, and why it is valued in schools. Most people think, "I am diverse because I am unique, because I can contribute this or that". That's not true. Everyone is unique. In fact, diversity becomes useful when the opposite happens. When people think, "I have strengths, but I also have weaknesses. Looking at others can remind me of myself, which is a good learning experience, but others are also different individuals, and I should try to see things from their perspective." If everyone thinks this way, then diversity will have value. If everyone thinks, "I am diverse in this way.. come and learn from me", then there will be no need for diversity because nobody will be learning from others.
PS, this is why schools seldom ask you, 'how will you add to diversity', with a view to seeing you say, "I am special in the following ways..". They don't do this because: 1) that is what the resume is for. 2) how you are special is something THEY decide, not you. Many students I've met try to differentiate themselves from other Chinese applicants, not realising that in the mind of the adcom.. "I am not typical Chinese" may not be diverse, because perhaps they are exactly looking for a classic Chinese applicant, because that will look most 'diverse' within the entire class? Anyway, even this is speculation. I'm jus tsaying you can't second-guess what they are looking for. 3) Indeed, perhaps the biggest problem is that they're not even 'looking' for any one profile in the first place.

So, instead they focus on finding out what kind of an introspective person you are, so they'll know if you can contribute to an environment where diversity will have educational value.
Here is an article from the NYTimes you may find interesting. They mention the accepting of diversity of viewpoints being very important for an older adult, in order to learn.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/education/edlife/03adult-t.html
Quote: "Teaching new facts should not be the focus of adult education, she says. Instead, continued brain development and a richer form of learning may require that you “bump up against people and ideas” that are different. In a history class, that might mean reading multiple viewpoints, and then prying open brain networks by reflecting on how what was learned has changed your view of the world."

iceccn> I would choose the other supervisor. Always go with the person with more vivid stories to tell. You can always explain it in the optional essay by saying.. "The one who provides the recommendation letter for me is my cross supervisor in the company's structure, but has had much more interaction with me than my direct supervisor. My previous direct supervisor has left the firm; my new direct supervisor has just arrived and doesn't know me well yet. " (These are your words )

-- by 会员 jelt2359 (2010/1/3 3:53:50)

On self-knowledge. To achieve self-knowledge, it is crucial to have a pure heart. Once upon a time, we were all pure in certain stage of our lives. But we experienced and were polished by the external influences and forces. No wonder in the forecourt of Temple of Apollo at Delphi, the phrase "Know Thyself" is inscribed there. To some extent, it is the highest realization of any individual. As you pointed out correctly, "it is an eternal process in understanding our own strengths and weaknesses"

Besides knowing how to differentiate our true selves philosophically, I think a more practical way is to apply our brainstorming results to paper. And do so in a frank way.

iceccn

Hi Jason,
I am going to submit Wharton today, but just find there seems to be no format requirement for the word doc.? Should I use double space and font size 10?

cannedpineapple

iceccn> Do whatever you think appropriate. Formatting is not going to be a problem on any application.

iceccn

Thank you Jason, I submitted already