Current INSEAD students taking questions

sinocheetah

以下是引用royix在2008-2-26 18:17:00的发言：

well, where comes this conclusion?

Funny, but actually many Chinese are far more brilliant and proactive than their Indians.

Bill Gates said: Besides Chinese, Southern Indians are the smartest people in the world.

Dude, be a man.

INSEAD recruits more than 50 Indians, less than 20 Chinese (+HK) each year. Based on my observation on campus, Chinese students are among the most silent groups, partically because of our language disadvantage. 

I always remind myself to be humble, realistic and hardworking. However, you cannot breakthrough barriers set forth overnight. Are there any Chinese named CEO or chairman in top US firms except being a co-founder? Almost no. Pepsi and Merry Lynch selected Indians as their heads. Top i-banks recruit thousands of ppl in India, and a bunch of ppl in China.

I don't want to argue more on this point, because simply it is a matter of fact. Citing Bill Gates's word cannot justify your conclusion. That's a piece of holly shit (useless compliments only to make you feel flattered).

Furthermore, think about even if you are smart and hardworking, why you still need to work for Americans? We are often less stratigic and short-sighted than them.

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-3-1 18:45:12编辑过]

sinocheetah

以下是引用neineihuang在2008-2-25 21:58:00的发言：

Just got the mail that I got accepted. Only applied for one program and succeeded.

It is nice to see my future schoolmates here. Strongly believe that the INSEAD experience will be good for me.

One question: could someone provide me with an estimate of the living expenses in
Fontaineblue? Gonna work out my next year's budget. Tks in advance.

In fonty, living expense breakdowns:

flat rental: 800 euros/month

Other cost: 400 euros/month

You can budget at 250K CNY except tuition fee. Do apply scholarship! In our promotion, 70% of Chinese get at least 10K euros!

royix

以下是引用sinocheetah在2008-3-1 18:43:00的发言：

INSEAD recruits more than 50 Indians, less than 20 Chinese (+HK) each year. Based on my observation on campus, Chinese students are among the most silent groups, partically because of our language disadvantage. 

I always remind myself to be humble, realistic and hardworking. However, you cannot breakthrough barriers set forth overnight. Are there any Chinese named CEO or chairman in top US firms except being a co-founder? Almost no. Pepsi and Merry Lynch selected Indians as their heads. Top i-banks recruit thousands of ppl in India, and a bunch of ppl in China.

I don't want to argue more on this point, because simply it is a matter of fact. Citing Bill Gates's word cannot justify your conclusion. That's a piece of holly shit (useless compliments only to make you feel flattered).

Furthermore, think about even if you are smart and hardworking, why you still need to work for Americans? We are often less stratigic and short-sighted than them.

I should applaud to your insightful ideas, very interesting, and I have to say I agree to part of them.

But what you are saying is just revealing the true image of the reality. Nothing is wrong with the reality, however something is wrong with the mentality.

I visited Fontainebleu last december, the marketing officer told me that he rarely knew any Chinese students in the school and he knew they were hard working. Man, I won't say it's just related to the language disadvantage, as most of Chinese students might think so.

No offense at all, because I also experienced that and I'm Chinese too. You can shoose your way to be humble, but this world won't appreciate that. You can praise on Indians for their proactive and inteligence, but I'll say that only Indians will see those words of Bill gates as a piece of holly shit. Not us Chinese!!!

Btw, I don't want to work for Americans at all because I want to build Chinese 'Sony' or 'Samsung'. But nothing is wrong with working in the West (if you see this as working for Americans, sorry, dude, still no comments), I will say I want to learn from them, because of the fact that business is well developped in the West in the last hundred years.

Concerning your point of view of no Chinese in the top-US firms, why bothers? Why you see this as an indicator that we are not good enough? I bet you know ArcelorMittal which is an Indian-owned International steel company. If you are not comfortable with this fact, go to make your own Chinese brand known in this world dominated by not-Chnese people as you think.

sinocheetah,

What I'm arguing is not at all personal, it's national.  I just don't want to lose the bloody character to be a proud Chinese who is fascinated with its own culture and people. If you don't have this passion in your heart, you can't deliver it to your surrounding. And what we carry on our shoulders is not just ourselfs when we are abroad. Sorry, i know it's too vague, but I just say out what I'm thinking.

I do have this believe and i'm doing this since I'm abroad. I'm looking forward to seeing you in Font, because you do have close observation on this real world. But i still think that's not enough.

superpapa88

INSEAD 本来就不在法国教育体系里, 而是泊来品.是三个在美国留学的法国工程师创办的. 指在以美国教育方式给法国工程师提供管理方面的技能.它的出名和法国工程师本身的高素质是分不开的.在法国最受承认的还是拿破伦时代建立的 GRANDE ECOLE 体系. 如果想在法国找公作, 第一你得说法语, 第二, 我真的没在呆过的那么多法国IB里见过INSEAD的中国人 (可能都在伦敦高就或着被派回中国高就) 有待我去伦敦上班的时候感受一下. 多数还是工程师学校和商校的中国人. 我并不是质疑 INSEAD 的声誉. 我一个 STRATEGY 的老师就是 INSEAD-WHARTON.不过最初他读的是 POLYTECHNIQUE. 所以中国人读MBA 首选还是美国. 如果同时有 INSEAD 和 LBS 的 OFFER 最好还是选 LBS.

royix

以下是引用superpapa88在2008-3-1 20:02:00的发言：
INSEAD 本来就不在法国教育体系里, 而是泊来品.是三个在美国留学的法国工程师创办的. 指在以美国教育方式给法国工程师提供管理方面的技能.它的出名和法国工程师本身的高素质是分不开的.在法国最受承认的还是拿破伦时代建立的 GRANDE ECOLE 体系. 如果想在法国找公作, 第一你得说法语, 第二, 我真的没在呆过的那么多法国IB里见过INSEAD的中国人 (可能都在伦敦高就或着被派回中国高就) 有待我去伦敦上班的时候感受一下. 多数还是工程师学校和商校的中国人. 我并不是质疑 INSEAD 的声誉. 我一个 STRATEGY 的老师就是 INSEAD-WHARTON.不过最初他读的是 POLYTECHNIQUE. 所以中国人读MBA 首选还是美国. 如果同时有 INSEAD 和 LBS 的 OFFER 最好还是选 LBS.

Insead is strong in consulting, not in IB.

INSEAS ranks 4th globally in the 2008 Financial Times, outraced many American schools.

The French is not the majority in INSEAD, so the reputation has nothing to do with the French INGENIEURs from French Grand Ecoles.

Between INSEAD and LBS, it depends on your long term career goals. Sometimes INSEAD, sometimes LBS.

nnm

There are not a lot of french students in here.

plus most of INSEAD的中国人 graduates go to london, instead of paris, for work.

you'll be supprised to know how many insead alumni are doing IB in london and frankfurt

superpapa88

伦敦和法兰克福的国际化程度肯定要比巴黎高.我只是说如果想在法国工作, 而且法语不是太好的话,INSEAD不是很好的选择. 而在欧洲 LBS 的 FINANCE 肯定是最好的.毕竟在伦敦还是有很多地缘优势. 至于在伦敦 IB 的人脉. 我相信肯定是那些 GRANDE ECOLE 的人要强的多. 首先在 FINANCIAL MARKET 上法国的工程师占领半壁江山 IDRISS BEN BRAHIM 和 PIERRE-HENRI FLAMAND 不是 CENTRALE 就是 X. GOLDMAN SACHS 和 MORGAN STANLEY M&A 的 MD 一个是 SCIENCES PO 另一个是 HEC. 我们学校做金融这行的多数去了伦敦.等你找工作的时候就会明白. 我还从来没听说过 INSEAD 的名人, 虽然30岁做做ANALYST 或着 ASSOCIATE 的人INSEAD可能多的是. 我那个 STRATEGY 的老师就是 MCKENSEY 的 PARTNER, 他读了INSEAD 但是最重要的是因为他是 X. 你虽遍翻翻 MCKENSEY 的 PLAQUETTE 看看那些人以前读的什么.

其实你去看那些 MBA 的就业报告就会明白, 你 POST MBA 的薪水和你本科的学历和第一分工作是有很强的CORRELATION 的. 不信你可以做一个REGRESSION. INSEAD 不是你职业的救命稻草. 更不用把自己想的比天高, 来讨论中国人比印度人聪明的事.事实是由与印度人, 阿拉伯人本来文化和语言上与欧洲藕断丝连, 他们在这里做 CLIENT-ORIENTED 之类的 IB, CONSULTING FIRM 就会比中国人强.

其实我和你多说什么你还是不会服气. 我只是想说在中国读本科的人到欧洲来本身就比土生欧洲人竞争力差一节. 除非你做那种超技术类的 QUANT. INSEAD 法国人多不多没关系, 中国人肯定是竞争力最差的. 因为从本身上说读 MBA 无非就是有职业瓶颈, 想跳.反过来想,如过你每年TRADING BONUS 有上千万欧元, 你会放下千万欧元来读书吗? 如果回答是是,那你得好好补补 UTILITY FUNCTION 这门课. 而中国人文化上的差异在欧洲又是至命的不可迂越的弱点. POINT BAR!

royix

以下是引用superpapa88在2008-3-2 4:33:00的发言：

伦敦和法兰克福的国际化程度肯定要比巴黎高.我只是说如果想在法国工作, 而且法语不是太好的话,INSEAD不是很好的选择. 而在欧洲 LBS 的 FINANCE 肯定是最好的.毕竟在伦敦还是有很多地缘优势. 至于在伦敦 IB 的人脉. 我相信肯定是那些 GRANDE ECOLE 的人要强的多. 首先在 FINANCIAL MARKET 上法国的工程师占领半壁江山 IDRISS BEN BRAHIM 和 PIERRE-HENRI FLAMAND 不是 CENTRALE 就是 X. GOLDMAN SACHS 和 MORGAN STANLEY M&A 的 MD 一个是 SCIENCES PO 另一个是 HEC. 我们学校做金融这行的多数去了伦敦.等你找工作的时候就会明白. 我还从来没听说过 INSEAD 的名人, 虽然30岁做做ANALYST 或着 ASSOCIATE 的人INSEAD可能多的是. 我那个 STRATEGY 的老师就是 MCKENSEY 的 PARTNER, 他读了INSEAD 但是最重要的是因为他是 X. 你虽遍翻翻 MCKENSEY 的 PLAQUETTE 看看那些人以前读的什么.

其实你去看那些 MBA 的就业报告就会明白, 你 POST MBA 的薪水和你本科的学历和第一分工作是有很强的CORRELATION 的. 不信你可以做一个REGRESSION. INSEAD 不是你职业的救命稻草. 更不用把自己想的比天高, 来讨论中国人比印度人聪明的事.事实是由与印度人, 阿拉伯人本来文化和语言上与欧洲藕断丝连, 他们在这里做 CLIENT-ORIENTED 之类的 IB, CONSULTING FIRM 就会比中国人强.

其实我和你多说什么你还是不会服气. 我只是想说在中国读本科的人到欧洲来本身就比土生欧洲人竞争力差一节. 除非你做那种超技术类的 QUANT. INSEAD 法国人多不多没关系, 中国人肯定是竞争力最差的. 因为从本身上说读 MBA 无非就是有职业瓶颈, 想跳.反过来想,如过你每年TRADING BONUS 有上千万欧元, 你会放下千万欧元来读书吗? 如果回答是是,那你得好好补补 UTILITY FUNCTION 这门课. 而中国人文化上的差异在欧洲又是至命的不可迂越的弱点. POINT BAR!

It seems your message is addressing to me directly.

I never want to have MBA as the last chance of my life. So please don't judge me with your imagination.

I do agree with your opinions, because that's true. My idea about Indian guys has nothing to do with culture barrier, it's just about the mentality.

Don't tell me cultural difference, because culture is always determined by economy. Why american culture impresses the whole world? Why Hollywood has that influence in presenting American spirit? I think I don't need to give you the answer.

I won't be 不服气, because I never said the surviving ability of Chinese were great in Europe or in USA. I don't want to arose dispute here. I just point out your logical problems in your previous post with evidence, not with childish and subjective conclusion.

One more: "INSEAD 本来就不在法国教育体系里, 而是泊来品". What's your problem? I would like to ask you who invents car in this world? But who is the best carmaker in this world today? In your logic, if you think you arrive later, you can never be superb. You are totally wrong. In the business world, China is never the first one, so in your opinion, we can never outpace the western countris. I'm sorry -I'll never agree with you.

And please note this, you are in the INSEAD chatroom. Even I'm not yet a student in INSEAD, I choose to defend it with figures.

royix

By the way, superpapa88, I know you graduated from HEC and want to "transfer from France to America" and you are doing IB.

Obviously, INSEAD may be not the best choice to you. I think everyone in this forum know that INSEAD is not a financial school.

However, you don't have to persuade everyone that INSEAD is not that good and worse than LBS and most of american schools. Maybe in your opinion, HEC is far better than INSEAD for it's the No 1 in the Grand Ecole System.

If you are not interested in INSEAD, what makes you post in this chat? Can't figure it out.

nnm

superpapa说的都是college grads,当然没有INSEAD什么事儿

在mba grads这块儿, 几家大的投行在欧洲只去少数几家,包括LBS, INSEAD, IE, IESE等

上一界毕业的中国人我知道有三个去了大的投行, 不过他们都在香港. 另外有一个我现在新加坡的中国同学刚刚找到在伦敦的投行工作. 我在新加坡, 在欧洲毕业的就不太清楚了.

去不去投行跟每个人以前的背景和喜好有很大关系的, 我敢说在INSEAD读书的大多数对投行是不敢兴趣的, 比如说我, 连简历懒得投. 

如果是相关的金融背景,读INSEAD来找一个IB的工作其实并不是很难, 但如果是industry经验想转行做IB, 就要看运气了.上面我说的几个人里也有转行成功的.