[讨论]OG11th-50

aoteman

我的理解：1that...verb that…错误。a错。2习惯搭配sb be at fault,sth be at fault错。所以b错。3这个人不可能错。而是这个人做的事情错误了。fault of educator错误。c错。4the fact be said错误。e措。

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-8-5 21:49:21编辑过]

spyder1011

综合以下，加入点我的理解：

A. 错在没有说清楚到底是什么can hardly be said. 这是一个普通句和强调句混用了:That...can hardly be said和It can hardly be said that..其实是一样的。但A把这两种形式都结合起来变成了That...can hardly be said that...，是错误而且有歧义的。OG上说的是Although it is possible to begin a sentence with subordinate clause beginning with that, this inverted construction often results in errors such as those found here.所以这种形式要慎选

B. 形式上是对了，但是A里面说的是their fault，所以逻辑上后面的选项也应该强调是educators的fault，而本句里面at fault的是That后面引导的整个丛句这件事。所以B歪曲了意思，不对

C. 比较迷惑。不考虑时态的问题。首先把动作的发出者educators放在后面这种形式就很不好，明明可以说成educators要负责任，倒过来说成责任要由educator来负，中文里也少用，对比了D就知道这种表达很不简练不是优选。其次，who没有揭示因果关系。本句的因果关系是：不能说，不能说什么呢：educator有fault，为什么有fault呢，因为他们没有anticipate。但是who只说明了educator没有anticipate这件事，并没有说明和前面fault的关系。所以脱节了。错。

D. 简洁，原因结果清楚，是educator负责逻辑关系正确，没有不对的时态

E. The fact是多余的，可以直接用that引导主语丛句。如上，逻辑关系是不能说educator有fault，而不是不能说一个事实：educator是有fault的。否则就正好弄反了，原文是说educator实际是没有错误的，因此才不能这样说，而不是说他们有错误。真要那样还不能说不是要反言论自由，麻烦就大了。

yichousun

楼上的解释比较好！

dormousedzc

it is the fault of educators who have not anticipated the impact of microcomputer technology

这个句子到底是否正确?

如果不正确,要如何改才能成为一个正确的强调句呢?请大牛指点.

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-11-11 15:13:21编辑过]

lijiahui0422

我中意你的解释

lijiahui0422

我觉得32楼说的一语中第  区分c和d从句意上讲有着不同的侧重点

c   如果把修饰语都去掉  会翻译出“某一种educators的错误 不好说”                    感觉话好像说了一半  很别扭

d     翻译出来是   “(那些educators没有预料到微机技术影响是一个错误)这件事，很不好说  "    明了很多

再就是把c的倒装还原成初始状态 (That it is 。。。。microcomputer technology)  can hardly be said    主语就不是一件事情   有点乱套

个人理解 感谢楼顶朋友们的启发！

lydiajiali

斗胆说一句，我觉得真正的错误不在于是否理解句子里到底是什么事实．．．的错误，还是个人的错误，或者是怎么表达这个错误。而是语法上错了。我这么说是不是把大家都说晕了。但是ＯＧ的解释就是这样的。虽然我没有看大懂．ＯＧ的解释是这样的

Although it is possible to begin a sentence with a subordinate clause beginning with that this inverted construction often results in errors such as those found here. In the original sentence, the subordinate clause that.....technology is followed by the main verb, can ...be said, but then the verb is followed by yet another subordinate clause, that it is their fault. The best way to solve this problem is by putting the sentence in the expected order, with the main clause It can hardly be said preceding the subordinate clause (that...). 这解释是什么意思呢？

而且Ｂ的解释很明确的说是语法上的错误，其实我Ｂ的解释也没有看懂．Ｂ为什么不对了？说从句不完整？什么意思？谁可以帮忙呢？那

ejbchang

先祝大家新年快乐!

ejbchang

我查了一下LOGMAN DICTIONARY

  fault : responsibility for mistake.

     eg: I didn't sleep well that night, but it was my own fault.

   Be sb's fault for doing sth

     eg: It's my fault for not making your new job clearer.

  At fault: if someone is at fault ,they are responsible for sth bad that was happened

    eg:  Some people claim that it is the UN that is at fault.

The choices C 扭曲原意. 这是(没有估计到.........的影响的)教育家的错. 限定了教育家的范围.还有别的教育家.而原意要表达的是(正如 D 中所说): 教育家对没有估计到.........的影响是有过错的.

 至于OG说:"it also lacks completion".  我的解释是这样的:  C 中THAT 后面是一个强调句型.比如这样举例你就明白了,下面的句子你一看就知道没有完成: It is the UN .  你就不知道要表达什么意思. 如果补全你就明白了:It is the UN that is at fault.    C said: It can hardly be said that (it is the fault of educators
  who have not anticpated the impact of microcomputer technology). 

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-2-6 18:22:44编辑过]

birmingman

longman对fault的解释是：

1
▶RESPONSIBLE FOR MISTAKE◀
if something bad that has happened is your fault, you should be blamed for it, because you made a mistake or failed to do something
I'm really sorry - it's all my fault.
be somebody's fault (that)
It's your fault we're late.
I didn't sleep well that night, but it was my own fault .
be somebody's fault for doing something
It’s my fault for not making your new job clearer.
2
at fault
if someone is at fault, they are responsible for something bad that has happened
The police said that the other driver was at fault. Some people claim that it is the UN that is at fault.
3
▶SOMETHING WRONG WITH SOMETHING◀
a) something that is wrong with a machine, system, design etc, which prevents it from working properly
a design fault
fault in
It sounds as if there's a fault in one of the loudspeakers.
b) something that is wrong with something, which could be improved
ￚsynonym flawThere are two serious faults in Hobsbawm's discussion of nationalism. For all its faults (=in spite of its faults) we love this city.
c) a mistake in the way that something was made, which spoils its appearance
fault in
The sweater had a fault in it and I had to take it back.
4
▶SOMEBODY'S CHARACTER◀
a bad or weak part of someone's character
His worst fault is his arrogance. I may have my faults , but ingratitude is not one of them. For all his faults (=in spite of his faults) he was a good father.
5
through no fault of her/my etc own
used to say that something bad that happened to someone was not caused by them
Through no fault of our own we are currently two players short.
6
▶CRACK◀
a large crack in the rocks that form the Earth's surface
the San Andreas fault in Northern California
7
generous/loyal/honest etc to a fault
extremely generous, kind etc
Barry's kind, caring and generous to a fault.
8
▶TENNIS◀
a mistake made when a player is serving the ball in tennis
ￚsee also double fault, find fault with somebody/something atfind1 (14)

貌似没有the fault of sb的用法，只有be sb's fault

只想说明这个，其他的还望大家讨论

[