Chinese boys, you need to sharpen your spoken English ability

Begood

以下是引用vagabond在2004-11-7 15:59:00的发言：

>>比如说"It is they.....",<<
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22it+is+they+who%22

If you didn't even know the sentence construction of "It is ... who ...", you may still have a long, long way to go. Go TOEFL first, because TOEFL can teach you grammatical 123.

You are so funny...haha....You don't even know which error I am talking about.

vagabond

.>>You are so funny...haha....You don't even know which error I am talking about.<<

I'd like to listen to if you could help me point out my grammatical errors, because by doing so I could grow stronger.

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-11-7 16:59:24编辑过]

vagabond

>>说你搞笑,你还要证明给大家看...呵呵... Google能证明什么呢?Internet上的错误用法多了去了,你要是觉得google得到的就是正确的,那倒也怪不得你的英文这么糟. BTW, I didn't socre high in GMAT, I just socred over 700.  I didn't go to (attend) (a) very good business school, I just went to (a) TOP-20 (one of top-20's on the middle/low rung) (run-on error).  Maybe you socred higher in GMAT (a higher GMAT) and went to (a) better school, but your written English sucks anyway.<<

While attacking others, you must be strong enough yourself; otherwise, you'd get back fired. Hope you're not a typical representative of Chinese boys in US.

It seems that some boys here are strenuously maintaining their own face (face issue), but tell you what, you have to earn it, not to boast it.

My English is not that good, only 94% in GMAT verbal. But I have an appropriate self-judgment toward my real English ability.

I quoted to you pieces from Google News Channel, which means most of them are from the Washington Post, the New York Times, and the like. Oh, by the way, if there're more than 1000 uses by all sorts of English public media, please don't think "only you're right (sober) and all English major media are wrong (drunk)."

I sure felt miserable for you because you don't even know how to use outside help (tools) to elevate yourself.

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-11-7 23:22:32编辑过]

robertchu

vagabond,

May I ask a question?  How can one improve his/her spoken English?  As said earlier, I’m pretty comfortable with my written English (although I still need spelling/grammar checker), but I’m less satisfied with my oral English.  How can I reduce my accent (other than finding an American girlfriend :-)?  Any tips?

BTW, I believe your intention is good.  But, maybe you could tone down your wording a little bit.  Yes, sometimes dramatic wording is needed to really draw people's attention.  But if you really want to persuade, a confrontational tone probably will only do you disservice.

I also use the word “presentation” a lot, so do my American colleagues here.  Maybe this is some bay area-specific usage?  :-)  I think ruiyu25 is simply pointing to the good side of the same coin.  So, there is really no need to argue on this.

I’m sorry that some of the earlier postings here are a little off the way.  But, as you know, this is just the reality of the Net, although CD is already a much better place comparing with others.  So, if everybody could just show a little bit more of understanding and courtesy, we could together make CD an even better place.

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-11-7 17:34:28编辑过]

delphine18

Agree! The original intention of vagabond might be good but the tone can be softer to avoid unnecessary misunderstanding...

lanslot

我不觉得vagabond有什么多好的动机

口语不好就是口语不好，事实而已，与能力和背景有关，与态度无关。

话说回来，女生英语本来就容易长进，要是不恐龙，很容易被别人搭话，哪里还用得着自己腼腆。这跟男生比起来是很大的优势。

yanying76

以下是引用ruiyu25在2004-11-7 16:19:00的发言：

Vagabond, I do think this is OFFENSE. I do make mistakes in my writing, but you probably make as many as mistakes as I do just as Begood mentions in his post. My English skills are far from perfect, but I am improving compared with myself a few years ago. I still have a lot to learn, so do you.  I do use "presentiations" quite often, so do my American colleagues and classmates. I bet you haved used this word at the similar frequency. You don't know me, but how do you know that I keep using similar words in my own special way? Don't you think you are too arbitrary?

I just expressed my own opinions toward your post. I think my expressions are appropriate and my attitude is polite. Why throw your ball at me? Because I am the female and try to be nice to you?

I do think you should think about your behavior.

Be comfortable, Ruiyu25! I empathized with your feeling when I read your previous posting, I could figure out the courtesy you displayed. Forgive her for her ruthlessness.

I also want to consult the initiator of the thread about the usage of "presentation", I donot know what the problem is by using this word. I know you'd love to offer help to improve others' poor English.

But, please, don't be agog to pick solecisms in my posting. I am scared...

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-11-8 2:48:14编辑过]

vagabond

>>I also want to consult the initiator of the thread about the usage of "presentation", I donot know what the problem is by using this word. I know you'd love to offer help to improve others' poor English.<<

I just want to present an example showing how "excellent" her real English ability is (or that she said 99.9% Chinese in her company used a clear and convincing English is far far away from reality, in a word, too cocky!), because she, herself after passing a real GMAT test, even misspelled such a very simple word "presentation" into "presention" in her posting, let alone "Japanese" into "Japaneses" (I suppose in any of China's primary schools, we all should know such a usage). Maybe just like RobertChu bantered, "Presention" is a jargon widely used only in the silicon valley.

Why I mainly responded to her postings is because one of her postings here is extremely misleading, serving no use to any newcomer.

>>Hey, don't be agog to pick solecisms in my posting. I am scared!<<

I think in this respect RobertChu is terrific: using an ABC checker can help you kill most errors in your articles. So, his attitude in fact made him score a 770+ GMAT, much better than mine.

My advice at this point: First face it, but never shun it, then correct it. Being too cocky undoubtedly will kill a lot of chances in your life.

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-11-8 3:17:19编辑过]

琥珀川白龙

以下是引用vagabond在2004-11-6 20:24:00的发言：

Some even have lived in US for more than a decade, but I can't express any of my mercy to them.

You should use "the" before "US", it is really basic...

In some sense, they are representing China and, unfortunately, showing the World a damaged image,

"in some sense", never heard of this. Is this English? or Chinglish?

often a little bit retard (Sorry for my wording, but it's for real.).

Should be "retarded".

Try to think, how to hold somebody in high esteem in any country while he speaks English or Chinese far less fluently than does a 7-year-old kid.

Obvious grammatical error.

At last, the managers at all-levels decided not to let him present again, even though his computer programming expertise belongs to the first-tier. Otherwise, he’d get fired in no time.

Why do you like dash so much? Also, you must pay attention to the consistence of verb tense.

A third example: a visiting scholar couldn't even talk with any of his job recruiters

I am afraid Americans don't say it in this way.

Until now, he is still jumping illegally from one restaurant to restaurant as a humble waiter, just to make a living.

Again, this is your Chinglish. If you want to say“跳槽”,you should use another verb. Go to ask your American friends.

"From one restaurant to restaurant", even a child can see the error.

BTW, do you think a waiter is really "humble"? Can you show some basic respects to other people? Don't be so mean!

I wonder why not go back to China as a well-respected professor of a top University, although his wife doesn't wish to?

Oh my God! Really a shit sentence! He has the right to make his own choice! It's none of your business!

Anyway, two grammatical mistakes here. "As" should be" to be". You don't need a capital "U" for university.

To the contrary, many Chinese girls in US can speak a decent English, especially for those who have become girlfriends or wives of Americans.

You should use "on the contrary".

"a decent English"? Can you use "a" before "English"? Rather stupid mistake.

Within nearly 20 years, China may compete US for GDP or something.

"nearly" should be "recent".

You should use "compete against".

But India is playing a rapid catch-up, if only because Indians have an overwhelming English advantage over Chinese,

What does "if only because" mean?

I think every Chinese will feel sad till then.

Obvious mistake.

And five years later you guys may be able to compete anyone on the global marketplace and command a much-higher salary.

Same as above, you should use "compete against". Obviously it is not your typo.

I think you should use "in" instead of "on".

Here as a Tsinghua grad I'd like to challenge any Tsinghua English teacher. I think it is they who are ruining thousands of Tsinghua students for year to year.

"for year to year", your invention?

Right now, US engineering and science graduate schools have been filled with Chinese students (over 3/4 in some Ph.D. programs), but at Wharton, only a tiny (less than) 3% are pure Mainland Chinese students and HBS has even less, perhaps explaining why in business-running arena China is still far far behind such well-developed countries as the United States.

A long sentence with no structure.

Wake up, Chinese boys! Change yourselves, change the world! Never step into the miserable fates of most current Chinese boys in US.

Wow! I really admire you! Are you Jesus?

Ms. Vagabond, please see above for my comments on your grammatical skills.

I am really disappointed. You made sooooooo many mistakes! How did you get 740 GMAT?

BTW, Do you think 740 is a high score? I don't think so.

robertchu

Everybody occasionally misspell at times.  I misspell much more than probably any of you do, before spelling-check.  Bill Gates also said that he was a terrible speller.  I guess this is what spelling checker is for.  So, there is really no big deal in the misspelling of one or a few words.  (BTW, ruiyu25 also has a decent 750+ GMAT score).

In addition, I don’t think ruiyu25’s posting is very misleading.  As said earlier, I view her comments as simply reflecting another aspect of the same coin.  Both are true: there are indeed tons of Chinese in the US whose English leaves much to be desired (me included), and at the same time there are as many, if not more, Chinese whose English is simply good.  It’s always worthwhile to point out things that should be improved, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that one needs to deny the existence of good stuff.

Just my 2 cents.