Chinese boys, you need to sharpen your spoken English ability

ceeyee

此文作者虽然出发点有好的一面，希望大家在美国英语能够强起来，中国人得争气，

可是字里行间处处透露出心底里暗藏的鄙视与傲慢，其实这样的心理也很正常普遍。

人的感情总是复杂的，不过最好是要有一份宽广包容的心。

robertchu

One more thing: let's don't turn this thread into a place where people try to find each other's alleged grammatical errors (that would scare me :-).  There is a better place for such discussion: the grammar board.  

Let's stick to the substance and spirit of the discussion, please.

yanying76

以下是引用琥珀川白龙在2004-11-8 3:15:00的发言：

Ms. Vagabond, please see above for my comments on your grammatical skills.

I am really disappointed. You made sooooooo many mistakes! How did you get 740 GMAT?

BTW, Do you think 740 is a high score? I don't think so.

Good job! Dude.

But I bet she will fight back like crazy.

vagabond

>>Some even have lived in US for more than a decade, but I can't express any of my mercy to them. You should use "the" before "US", it is really basic <<

In an informal situation like this, the use of US instead of ‘the United States’ has no error at all. And here ‘the’ is not necessary (US is used as an acronym).

>>In some sense, they are representing China and, unfortunately, showing the World a damaged image, "in some sense", never heard of this. Is this English? or Chinglish? << http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22In+some+sense%22

More than 300 times: If you never heard of this, it seems that you still need to improve. The funniest part is that to those expressions about which you're ignorant, you call them not English.

>>often a little bit retard (Sorry for my wording, but it's for real.). Should be "retarded". <<

If colloquialism is not allowed here, I could view you-claimed “retarded” as “right”.

>> Try to think, how to hold somebody in high esteem in any country while he speaks English or Chinese far less fluently than does a 7-year-old kid. Obvious grammatical error. <<

Unfortunately, you're wrong and I’m right at this point: “does” = "speaks" here. I wonder how you have achieved a 750 GMAT in a real test if until now you still don't even know such a common usage, which is frequently tested by ETS. I suggest that if possible, you attend a New Oriental training class first, because every grammatical teacher there will better mentor you at this issue.

>>At last, the managers at all-levels decided not to let him present again, even though his computer programming expertise belongs to the first-tier. Otherwise, he’d get fired in no time. Why do you like dash so much? Also, you must pay attention to the consistence of verb tense. <<

The key issue here is that the use of dash seems right.

>>A third example: a visiting scholar couldn't even talk with any of his job recruiters I am afraid Americans don't say it in this way. <<

Unfortunately, you're absolutely wrong and my expression is used more frequently by Americans. More than 24,000 times. Your ignorance totally "impressed" me. I was more surprised to hear that you have got your master's degree in the United States and even worked in US for a couple of years. Maybe as an engineer, you don’t need to read English at all.
>> from one restaurant to restaurant  Again, this is your Chinglish. If you want to say“跳槽”,you should use another verb. Go to ask your American friends. BTW, do you think a waiter is really "humble"? Can you show some basic respects to other people? Don't be so mean!<<

Sorry for my error. I first planned to use "from one restaurant to another" and then I changed it into "from restaurant to restaurant" but forgot to delete that “one”. By the way, the use of “jump from A to B” has no error at all. Actually, my expression is a kind of banter, because he is forced to do so due to his illegal VISA status.

How do you explain “in my humble opinion”? I do show my respect for anyone in any societal caste status, but I show more respect for a professor than for a waiter. It's very hard for me to show my respect for a criminal.

>>To the contrary, many Chinese girls in US can speak a decent English, especially for those who have become girlfriends or wives of Americans. You should use "on the contrary"."a decent English"? Can you use "a" before "English"? Rather stupid mistake. <<

First, “to the contrary” is totally right. Second, when English was spoken by a person, we can use who speaks a decent English. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22speak+a+decent+English%22&btnG=Search

It seems that you sure don't know what American #1 (Merriam Webster Dictionary) is; otherwise, you'd not have shown your super ignorance in public.

>>I wonder why not go back to China as a well-respected professor of a top University, although his wife doesn't wish to? Oh my God! Really a shit sentence! He has the right to make his own choice! It's none of your business! Anyway, two grammatical mistakes here. "As" should be" to be". You don't need a capital "U" for university. <<

Here in informal case, we can omit “he does” Why (he does) not … as …, thus, that "as" stands for "he" has no error at all. As to "University", at first I planned to disclose his university name, but for his own good, I deleted his school name but forgot to change “University” into “university”. Sorry for my carelessness.

I seem not to be at fault in giving my own assessment. From my deep heart, I think if he had elevated his spoken English ability, his American dream would have been much better. It's surely none of my business, but I don't wish Americans saw every Chinese as a "criminal" or something.

>>Within nearly 20 years, China may compete US for GDP or something. "nearly" should be "recent". You should use "compete against". <<

If you were to prefer a very formal format and correct “nearly” to “approximately”, I’d appreciate it. But it seems that you can’t really understand what I was saying.

Here give you an example in GMAT OG,” …only … could rival it for scale and magnificence.” I wonder how you hit the GMAT OG?

>>But India is playing a rapid catch-up, if only because Indians have an overwhelming English advantage over Chinese, What does "if only because" mean? <<

It seems that you have a little bit problem in understanding English.http://news.google.com/news?q=%22if+only+because%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn

>>I think every Chinese will feel sad till then. Obvious mistake.<<

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&tab=wn&q=%22till+then%22

I really wonder how you have achieved so high a GMAT score?

>>And five years later you guys may be able to compete anyone on the global marketplace and command a much-higher salary. Same as above, you should use "compete against". Obviously it is not your typo. I think you should use "in" instead of "on" <<

Compete/rival somebody [for something] has no any error. The use of “on the marketplace” also has no error at all. http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&tab=wn&q=%22on+the+marketplace%22 Maybe you just read too little in US.

Also, the use of “a much-higher salary” has no error at all. http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&tab=wn&q=%22a+much-higher+salary%22

>>Here as a Tsinghua grad I'd like to challenge any Tsinghua English teacher. I think it is they who are ruining thousands of Tsinghua students for year to year. "for year to year", your invention? <<

Sorry for my misspelling.

>>Right now, US engineering and science graduate schools have been filled with Chinese students (over 3/4 in some Ph.D. programs), but at Wharton, only a tiny (less than) 3% are pure Mainland Chinese students and HBS has even less, perhaps explaining why in business-running arena China is still far far behind such well-developed countries as the United States. A long sentence with no structure. <<

Here I highlight my construction as follows:

…clause…, but…clause…, doing something.

But I should say sorry for such a complex sentence construction. For GMAT test-takers, however, it should be a piece of cake.

>>Wake up, Chinese boys! Change yourselves, change the world! Never step into the miserable fates of most current Chinese boys in US. Wow! I really admire you! Are you Jesus? <<

If I could I wish, especially when such a behavior will do great good to China. Also, I think it's the basic ethics that a business leader (or an MBA student) must possess.

If I had really made approx. 90% of errors while mistakenly pointing out others’ you-called “errors”, I would not “haha” but feel extremely embarrassed and only want to cry.

I'm also extremely surprised, because some here even acclaimed his ability to mix "right" with "wrong". I'm surely tired of handling with some Chinese boys here.

Anyway, thanks for your efforts.

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-11-8 15:51:26编辑过]

琥珀川白龙

以下是引用ceeyee在2004-11-8 3:31:00的发言：

此文作者虽然出发点有好的一面，希望大家在美国英语能够强起来，中国人得争气，

可是字里行间处处透露出心底里暗藏的鄙视与傲慢，其实这样的心理也很正常普遍。

人的感情总是复杂的，不过最好是要有一份宽广包容的心。

同意！本人最瞧不起的就是这种人！

那种鄙视与傲慢甚至并没有暗藏，而是十分明显！狭隘的心胸，失衡的心态！

琥珀川白龙

以下是引用vagabond在2004-11-8 3:39:00的发言：

>>Some even have lived in US for more than a decade, but I can't express any of my mercy to them. You should use "the" before "US", it is really basic <<

I think in an informal situation like this, Using US instead of ‘the United States’ has no error at all. And here ‘the’ is totally not necessary.

>>In some sense, they are representing China and, unfortunately, showing the World a damaged image, "in some sense", never heard of this. Is this English? or Chinglish?<< http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22In+some+sense%22

More than 300 times: If you never heard of this, it seems that you still need to improve.

>>often a little bit retard (Sorry for my wording, but it's for real.). Should be "retarded".<<

If colloquialism is not allowed here, I could view you-claimed “retard” as “right”.

>> Try to think, how to hold somebody in high esteem in any country while he speaks English or Chinese far less fluently than does a 7-year-old kid. Obvious grammatical error.<<

Unfortunately, I’m right at this point: “does” = speaks here.

>>At last, the managers at all-levels decided not to let him present again, even though his computer programming expertise belongs to the first-tier. Otherwise, he’d get fired in no time. Why do you like dash so much? Also, you must pay attention to the consistence of verb tense.<<

The key issue here using dash seems right.

>>A third example: a visiting scholar couldn't even talk with any of his job recruiters I am afraid Americans don't say it in this way.<<

Unfortunately, mine is used more frequently by Americans. More than 24,000 times.

哈哈哈哈！这就是你的回应吗？什么informal, 什么24,000 times，你自己统计的吗？

语法错误谁都会有，老外也不例外！没什么不好意思承认的。

问题的关键不在于此！有些人英语说不利落一样令我尊敬，而有些人即使满口流利英语一样被所有人鄙视！

yanying76

以下是引用vagabond在2004-11-8 3:03:00的发言：

>>I also want to consult the initiator of the thread about the usage of "presentation", I donot know what the problem is by using this word. I know you'd love to offer help to improve others' poor English.<<

I just want to present an example showing how "excellent" her real English ability is (or that she said 99.9% Chinese in her company used a clear and convincing English is far far away from reality, in a word, too cocky!), because she, herself after passing a real GMAT test, even misspelled such a very simple word "presentation" into "presention" in her posting, let alone "Japanese" into "Japaneses" (I suppose in any of China's primary schools, we all should know such a usage). Maybe just like RobertChu bantered, "Presention" is a jargon widely used only in the silicon valley.

Why I mainly responded to her postings is because one of her postings here is extremely misleading, serving no use to any newcomer.

>>Hey, don't be agog to pick solecisms in my posting. I am scared!<<

I think in this respect RobertChu is terrific: using an ABC checker can help you kill most errors in your articles. So, his attitude in fact made him score a 770+ GMAT, much better than mine.

My advice at this point: First face it, but never shun it, then correct it. Being too cocky undoubtedly will kill a lot of chances in your life.

Don't try to evaluate one's English ability with stupid standard test scores! Do you need me to point how babyish you are to demonstrate your ability by resorting to good scores?

BTW, I sincerely recommend you to improve you EQ a liitle bit. Just ignore my advice if you think it doesn't matter even offending most people, but you should know that not everybody is as gentle as RobertChu. Especially in the US, a person who doesn't esteem others will hurt herself eventually.

dashasha

楼主mm，我对你原文里的观点是非常赞同的，可是说是很欣赏的。可是，我觉得你把yurui的帖子拿出来，挨个指错的做法有些不妥。yurui的帖子观点虽然与你不尽相同，但是这也是她个人的观点，而她也以非常礼貌的方式表达出来了。而你的做法确实不够礼貌。我有一个观点不知道你同意否，英语口语非常非常重要，可是跟人交往的技巧也非常重要。怎样让周围的人觉得跟你相处很舒服是非常重要的，你说是吗?

最后，想说一句，很高兴看到你有这样的见识，但是说话如果能更婉转又在理，那就更好了。与你共勉。

vagabond

Do you guys know Merriam Webster Dictionary?

Here comes the definition of "to the contrary": - to the contrary 1 : on the contrary 2 : NOTWITHSTANDING

http://www.merriamwebster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=contrary

That you never see it in your life does not mean there's no such use at all.

You posting just shows others here how ignorant you’re!

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-11-8 9:09:04编辑过]

lanslot

好么，变大戏了。众人拾柴火焰高！