WSJ latest MBA ranking

JW2004

1. 大家对于不同的排名有不同的理解，争论不完的。

2. 你可以不相信这个排名，但不要拿自己的意见去怀疑派名机构的动机。你不能因为一个人有了错误，就怀疑另一个人的你自己不相信的数据是哗众取宠。在拿到证据之前，没有事实依据的结论是站不住脚的。

3. 没有人说有了WSJ的排名，MICHIGAN就是第一的。HBS在WSJ上排名靠后，但不会影响他的就业，我认为那是因为HBS的学生平均起来更加优秀，但并不是所有人都是。

4. 一旦进了商学院，决定你的前途的大部分在于你个人，不在你的学校。两个完全一样的人一个进了MICHIGAN, 一个进了HBS，毕业时雇主给谁工作并不取决于你来自哪个学校，而是在你个人。我认为WSJ的排名的意义在于这里，那就是，在其他个人条件相同的情况下，他们更喜欢MICHIGAN学生的风格。

robertchu

Frankly I don't think the WSJ ranking worth such a heated debate.  It is just one of several rankings and one that’s generally conceived as "unique" because it's lopsided methodology.

For those folks who love Michigan, it's great!  High ranking in recruiter preference certainly is fabulous.

For those defending HBS or Stanford, move on :-)  You can easily point to US News ranking (a more stable and broadly respected ranking) or Forbes ranking (another niche, but on the green backs, the stuff important to many) as evidences.

For those of us who are in neither camp, the WSJ ranking is something useful.  Not necessarily the ranking itself, but the data it provides, such as the industry/specialty ranking (as recruiters perceive), the strengths and weakness of each program (in recruiters' words), the placement stats.  But I would suggest that we don't dwell too much on the ranking.  What really matters is what one can get out of his MBA experience.  If you really care about ranking, then the general perception of your school (in other words, the ranking) in the particular industry and the particular geographical location that you want to be in the future matters much more than, may I say, one controversial ranking.

skypacerzhou

Ranking the MBA programs based on surveys about recruiting experiencs is funny, if not ridiculous. The experience itself is  too much subjective  to support any meaningful comparison. For example, you go to Stanford and Michigan to find a candidate for a position, chances are that you'll favor Michigan experiences even though the Stanford candidate is a little stronger. Why? Because different schools give you different expectations toward the candiates, and your experience is by and large a comparison between the real outcome and your previous anticipations.

Even though I am Chicago MBA and got admitted to a couple of other top programs(dinged by HBS), I have to admit that the students from HBS and Stanford are of much higher calibre than most other schools in general. Check out most of the private equity firms or venture funds, and you will see most of the partners there are from either H or S. Whartonies are quite rare, let alone the Michigan.

Having said that, I don't want myself appear to be personally biased against the Michigan. As a matter of fact, Michigan is on the top list of my favoriate schools with its small town flavor and collegial atmosphere, but I guess those emotional variables should be isolated from the system. Ranking is ranking and many will argue that ranking is meaningless, but when we talk about it, we need to look at its fundamentals seriously.

If we conduct a similar survey in China to figure out the top universities in this country, guess what will be the outcome? THU, PKU and USTC will be out of top10.

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-9-24 16:51:58编辑过]

飞雪

I really don't know whether you replied the post ever read through my input. I underlined so many times that I don't look too much into the WSJ ranking even though I am in Michigan. I never thought Michigan is the number one only because of the WSJ ranking and I never said that Harvard is not an honorable school, neither did JW2004.

I am not intending to arise an argument. And actually, we all have the common opinions on some facts: 1) Don't treat rankings too seriously; 2) Rankings can't change the real status of schools; 3) Different schools have different edges.

If WSJ ranked Harvard or Stanford number one, will you still criticize its ranking standards? I guess you won't although the standards are the same. The confliction between your value and WSJ's standards mignified only because WSJ didn't rank highly the schools you consider or most people consider should be the top schools. I don't think a single media will devote too much time and money to cover all the aspects of schools when doing the ranking stuff, that is the reason that we have so many rankings. You can't say their standards are ridiculous because they only focus on one or several aspects.

Just as you said, let's look into the fundamentals, allowing people use different standards to make their own judgement. Take what you think is right and useful instead of putting too many subjective and emotional elements into it.

Good luck with your study in Chicago, you probably will have better chance there to get into Fiance field than were you in Harvard.

flyingpiggy

If we conduct a similar survey in China to figure out the top universities in this country, guess what will be the outcome? THU, PKU and USTC will be out of top10.

I will think it is a natural thing if any of the univeristies you mentioned is out of top10, assuming the survey is only for MBA ranking.

Begood

J&J这种公司也被拿出来当例子了,挺有趣的.我在的学校比较普通,反正也算在WSJ的这个全国排名里进入前19了.  J&J的那个国际项目每年也到我们学校来.每年都有大陆直接来的中国同学拿到offer(intern or full time),但是每年都没人最后去J&J.说句大实话吧,要是能进MC,IB这些专业服务公司,大部分MBA恐怕都不愿意去企业干,更何况J&J这是个回国干的活,工资好象才20多万,真是低了点.我前两天随手申请一把,下周面试,反正就当练习了,就算给了offer,最后估计也是要拒了他们的.

UM当然是好学校,但是跟Harvard, Stanford, Wharton那些的距离也是比较明显的.综合实力来说H/S/W还是最好的,而且优势明显,其他top10基本并肩而行吧.

顺便想问问今年毕业的各位兄弟姐妹目前工作找得怎样了?  我现在有几个interview,但是还没offer,大部分中国同学也差不多.听说H/W/Chi里好些中国人都拿offer了,是不是真的啊?能介绍一下经验吗?祝大家好运!

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-9-25 9:27:26编辑过]

飞雪

楼上这位说话口气真是够大的，那我真不知道Harvard的学生为什么还要去在你眼里这么不值一提的公司，而且人还不少。你的判断也太绝对了吧，不是所有的人都想进MC和IB那种地方的，除了钱多，还有什么好，反正打死我，我也不会去这种地方，除了钱，世界上还有样东西叫“生活”！

J&J给Michigan学生的工资是给你们学校的两倍，这可能能体现出点学校之间的差别来了。

说起找工作的情况，Michigan 05的很多中国人都已经拿到full time offer了。像你这种态度，没有offer我觉得是非常可以理解的。

Ok, i don't want to be hooked up by this topic anymore. As I once said, I love CD, I don't want to destroy the friendly atmosphere here.

mbacn02

Hello Begood,

What do you think about current job market in US? it's really improving? Can you share some detailed information about your school, or some other schools? I know it probably wouldn't be very accurate, but a couple of samples will help us to know what would be a realistic expectation. Welcome other current b'schools students also give some input.

Begood

以下是引用飞雪在2004-9-25 12:03:00的发言：

楼上这位说话口气真是够大的，那我真不知道Harvard的学生为什么还要去在你眼里这么不值一提的公司，而且人还不少。你的判断也太绝对了吧，不是所有的人都想进MC和IB那种地方的，除了钱多，还有什么好，反正打死我，我也不会去这种地方，除了钱，世界上还有样东西叫“生活”！

J&J给Michigan学生的工资是给你们学校的两倍，这可能能体现出点学校之间的差别来了。

说起找工作的情况，Michigan 05的很多中国人都已经拿到full time offer了。像你这种态度，没有offer我觉得是非常可以理解的。

Ok, i don't want to be hooked up by this topic anymore. As I once said, I love CD, I don't want to destroy the friendly atmosphere here.

To 飞雪.

呵呵,我是说我们学校比较普通啊,这么气急败坏干嘛?我不是也说UM是好学校了吗?你太敏感了吧.UM很多中国学生都有OFFER了?那要恭喜一下啊.J&J给的薪水我也不清楚,只是道听途说而已,可能并不准确.嘿嘿,不过就你的态度而言,我看连J&J的interview估计都拿不着.

To MBAcn02,

现在形势比去年好些了,但是H1签证问题对国际学生在美国就业的影响还是不小的.不过关键还是看个人的以前工作经验,在学校的表现和暑期实习.签证是个问题,如果没在毕业后3,4个月内找到工作,OPT一到期,就得离境了.不过很多公司都有跨国招聘的项目,中国学生申请这些位置比较容易.你也是今年找工作吗? Good luck to you!

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-9-25 13:45:46编辑过]

robertchu

大家火气都不小嘛。不要再争了！

祝05的大家全都找到如意的好工作！多给我们这些后来人点信心！:-)