留美国还是回中国？？比较

lucsh · 发表于 2008-1-27 00:02:00

以下是引用delphine18在2008-1-25 12:11:00的发言：

鱼和熊掌本来就不可兼得。读了这么多年书，这个道理总应该明白。美国和中国说到底是两种lifestyle，如果你看重稳定舒适，看重家庭和生活质量，不喜欢一天到晚加班压力大的工作，那可以考虑留在美国；如果你喜欢挑战自我、挑战高薪，开创打拼、冒险赌博之类的，那就赶紧回国。很简单的选择，犯不着把两边的生活开销拿出来比来比去的，越比越糊涂

我至今记得在我拿到某consulting firm国内offer以后，我的一个在国内另一家consulting firm工作的师兄对我讲的话：不要为了global pay回国。我听了他的话，现在也没有后悔

美国有不少破公司,中小公司,不管是美国人开的,还是外国人开的,不但工作时间长,钱也少,汇率一贬再贬就更惨了...而且精神生活不愉快. 连大街上美女都见不到,也...不到;好吃的也没有,最多开车转转,还不能开快,警察太多......生活实在没有质量,家庭在这里看来在这里也建立不起来了..............只是感觉美国这里目前的整体经济实力比中国还是强很多,但对于个人确实很难说了,以后也很难说了.....而且硬件好,软环境对于第一代移民我看这辈子就不要想了,前面有个人大夸美国如理想社会的人,是否可以到美国的论坛上和美国人多聊聊,看聊得起来不.....少到中国人的论坛上来了....美国人了嘛........

到今天下了90%的决心回国, 要再加10%.............

三十以后 · 发表于 2008-1-27 02:12:00

以下是引用YellowJacket在2008-1-26 15:20:00的发言：

Sour grape! You can go back to China as a loser or you can go back to China as a winner.

Most of my successful friends got their green card or citizenship and then went back to China as big sharks.

Case #1) His wife is U.S. Citizen, so he does not care. He founded the largest hedge fund in China, with capital over 1 billions USD.

Case #2) He got U.S. citizenship and accumulated 20 millions USD in personal wealth working in hi-tech companies. He went to China to found his own semiconductor company. His company got acquired by another company which went IPO on Nasdaq in last year. Filthy rich now.

Case #3) He got his green card and went back to China to work as an early employee in a start-up in Beijing. The start-up went IPO on NASDAQ and he became the CTO. His wife stayed in U.S. until getting U.S. citizenship. Now she is in Beijing with him.

Case #4) She got U.S. citizenship and went to Hong Kong to work in a law firm. She quited and joined a start-up in Shenzhen as CFO. She took the company IPO on NASDAQ. Hi-tech life with iBanking pay now.

Those are fine examples of smart people doing smart things. At the end, they got the best of both World.

Now, look at you. You yell, you cry, and you quit, all because your dreams are too hard to get. Hopeless!

还有，不知道张朝阳丁雷他们回去的时候有没有绿卡，丁磊我想没有吧因为他回去的时候只有二十五六岁。即使有的话他们的成功是因为有旅卡吗？

三十以后 · 发表于 2008-1-27 02:13:00

以下是引用lucsh在2008-1-27 0:02:00的发言：

美国有不少破公司,中小公司,不管是美国人开的,还是外国人开的,不但工作时间长,钱也少,汇率一贬再贬就更惨了...而且精神生活不愉快. 连大街上美女都见不到,也...不到;好吃的也没有,最多开车转转,还不能开快,警察太多......生活实在没有质量,家庭在这里看来在这里也建立不起来了..............只是感觉美国这里目前的整体经济实力比中国还是强很多,但对于个人确实很难说了,以后也很难说了.....而且硬件好,软环境对于第一代移民我看这辈子就不要想了,前面有个人大夸美国如理想社会的人,是否可以到美国的论坛上和美国人多聊聊,看聊得起来不.....少到中国人的论坛上来了....美国人了嘛........

到今天下了90%的决心回国, 要再加10%.............

即使是第二代移民也不一定过得很爽，弗吉尼亚枪击案为证

Whitney · 发表于 2008-1-27 04:26:00

It really depends on what industries you are going to work with.
Some industries such as some of IT or food industry, etc. are primarily driven by markets. It is good to go back China when you are young.

But some industries such as aircrafts/ jet engines and pharmaceutical industry require huge investiments and decade-long accumulation of technologies in a long period (several decades for jet engine and decade for drug). In general, all entry level MBA/ engineer/scientist are useless if you went back China right after school. Only senior managers with engineering/science background are useful for China because they have first-hand experience to see how a product is developed from scratches. One of good examples is Taiwan's semi-conduc industry.

A lot of Chinese students don't realize the gap between US and China is at least one century. There are more 300 Nobel prize winners in U.S. There are none in China if you don't count Dalai Lama. Maybe, one or two China-trained scientists can get Novel prize in next 20~30 years. Just like Chinese men's soccer team who will never win a world-cup, China-trained scientists may never get a Nobel prize unless they can prove otherwise. At the end of day, we have to ask a question "WHY?".

So we need some Chinese to go back China and some to stay in US. We need keep China connecting to the world.
"Stay hungry, stay foolish."

会飞的小蘑菇 · 发表于 2008-1-27 05:00:00

不过北大的林毅夫芝加哥大学经济学博士已经通过委员会的任命担任世界银行的首席经济学家和副行长，而且在未来几年被认为非常可能获得诺贝尔经济学奖。。因为世界银行联合国没有任何国家有中国的话语支配权。我认为中国和美国在科技领域或者在某些领域没有直接的可比性。当今全球化的经济环境下更多的是互补和双赢而不是独立的在割裂的领域进行优劣比较，因为各个领域的盈利相关系数非常高。我认为国家综合国力的比较除了军事政治稳定因素之外，主要是比较经济的活动性和市场的依赖度。诸多宏观因素如利率，汇率，通胀，外汇储备，外债规模，股票市场的深度和广度。。CPI..投资者可支配收入和信心程度。。中国市场在国际市场的份额，依赖度，影响力，话语权决定的定价能力以及人民币的价值可能导致的世界经济连锁反应。。等等等等。所以出了几个诺贝尔奖这种比较我认为不能代表两个超级大国的国力水平的比较。当然某些领域特别是科技领域中国硬件有差距所以无法吸引足量的海外人才，但是这种微观领域的差距绝不代表中国与世界综合实力的差距。。我知道知识科技是生产力，但是这在经济模型里只是经济增长的因素之一，而社会人口总增长，社会参与劳动能力的增长，新资本的投入以及生产力效力提高所带动的储蓄和投资的增长决定综合经济的增长。。我们在这里并不是以几千年历史的泱泱大国自居而夸夸其谈，而是客观的面对真实的历史数据看到当今世界的游戏规则越来越向中国倾斜。。。我们去年的GDP为11.4%，美国英国日本是多少？甚至有经济学家说日本经济在未来两年面临崩溃！考虑到日本现在的deflation。。。现在随便推开那个商学院的课堂或者参加什么高层的经济研讨会，从始至终听到最多的词就是CHINA。。有中国的大型企业采购一单美国产品当天相应的美国股价就狂升300BP!中国经济的一个微小变动信号可能会立刻导致美国股市以及世界股市的连锁反应。。美国如此巨大的CURRENT ACCOUNT DEFICIT是美国的经济拖垮的致命因素。。

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-1-27 5:37:28编辑过]

delphine18 · 发表于 2008-1-27 05:38:00

以下是引用lucsh在2008-1-27 0:02:00的发言：

美国有不少破公司,中小公司,不管是美国人开的,还是外国人开的,不但工作时间长,钱也少,汇率一贬再贬就更惨了...而且精神生活不愉快. 连大街上美女都见不到,也...不到;好吃的也没有,最多开车转转,还不能开快,警察太多......生活实在没有质量,家庭在这里看来在这里也建立不起来了..............只是感觉美国这里目前的整体经济实力比中国还是强很多,但对于个人确实很难说了,以后也很难说了.....而且硬件好,软环境对于第一代移民我看这辈子就不要想了,前面有个人大夸美国如理想社会的人,是否可以到美国的论坛上和美国人多聊聊,看聊得起来不.....少到中国人的论坛上来了....美国人了嘛........

到今天下了90%的决心回国, 要再加10%.............

哈哈，又没谁逼着你进美国的小破公司，要真是top b-school，来学校招聘的都是大牌公司，想进小破公司，人家还不一定敢招你呢（工资水平达不到MBA要求阿）

早就说了这是个人选择，每个人心中一杆秤，想清楚了愿意回国的尽管回，没必要一天到晚犹豫不决比来比去的，或者非要拿自己的标准去说服别人

YellowJacket · 发表于 2008-1-27 05:40:00

以下是引用会飞的小蘑菇在2008-1-26 20:57:00的发言：

说认真的你说的这个人好像我认识吧？。。。不过两人分开为了等绿卡我觉得不值。。没有比家庭和婚姻重要的对于女人。。另外是不是LOSER我认为能在美国名校读书回去就不是LOSER,难道即使在美国找一个一年4-5万的工作三流学校拿到绿卡他们就是WINNER比我们回去的强吗？YELL,CRY,QUIT，你了解我多少就说HOPELESS？？我想留美国的话这不正犹豫呢难道回去的就是LOSER？你对现在的中国太不了解了！知道华尔街日报的主席怎么形容中国的地位吗？“CHINA SHAKING THE WORLD”。。知道中国巨型企业老总来开会其它美国同行的巨型企业的CEO都什么态度吗？是在他们做PRESENTATION之前先走到中国老总那点头哈腰递上名片。。然后才回到讲坛开始PRESENTATION。。那态度就像来朝拜一样。。是啊，不会和中国玩就别当CEO了。。知道BP公司年报的规则吗？说年报内容一定要有和中国相关的业务。。否则根本没有经济增长点和吸引力。。知道那些顶级投行的CEO 怎么形容中国吗？那感觉就是甚至把中国说的太高了我们中国人都觉得太高了，但是这就是事实，说中国本世纪内会成为世界第一强国。。

Without doubt, China is rising fast. I managed and trained employees in China 6 years ago and founded my own company in Central China three years ago. I brought back my management skills and capital to China and trained many local employees with "real world" experiences. I helped and contributed to China's industry standards. I have de facto "dual" citizenship. When I am inside of China, I am PRC citizen. When I am outside of China, I am U.S. citizen. Do I know China? Yes, I know. Probably better than you do.

Unfortunately, CHINA != YOU and YOU != CHINA. CHINA is the biggest excuse for you. You can find tons of excuses because you do not want to stay out of your comfort zone. You know everything ahead of you if you go back to China. Life is more predictable. Life is easier. There is no deliberate risk. You have your parents pampering you. You lost your quality of risk taking and adventurism. It's all the attitude that really matters. If you think it is hard to stay in U.S. and you choose to go back to China, you are a loser forever. If you have a higher goal in your life and don't want to waste time, like Deng Xiaoping or Alan Guo (I hope he is not bullshiting in his Stanford essay), you are a winner even if you choose to go back to China. From what you have written so far, I think you just want to stay in your comfort zone. That's your choice. But that's not the role model that will make future China stronger and better.

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-1-27 5:49:55编辑过]

delphine18 · 发表于 2008-1-27 05:40:00

以下是引用三十以后在2008-1-26 13:40:00的发言：

所谓“快退休”我想也是一种夸张的说法，跟我的“踢狗”类似是吧蘑菇？

实际情况放在这里，H1B就是六年有效期，看不出有什么夸张的必要

除非你现在已经年龄一大把或者牙齿已经坏得不行了

delphine18 · 发表于 2008-1-27 05:44:00

以下是引用会飞的小蘑菇在2008-1-26 20:57:00的发言：

是?lt;i>YellowJacket在2008-1-26 15:20:00的发言：