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FYI, Businessweek上关于申请人数的讨论

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楼主
发表于 2003-10-28 09:12:00 | 只看该作者

FYI, Businessweek上关于申请人数的讨论

From:  MBAORDEATH   5:12 am  
To:  ALL   (1 of 20)  

  48977.1  

First deadline for few schools has already passed and going by the overall buzz, it seems that the volume of applications is substantially lower than the last year. No hard facts to support this, though. Its too early, the cycle has just been put in motion but it might be a portend of things to come.

Anybody anything to contribute?

  From:  QIZZSHOW   5:46 am  
To:  MBAORDEATH   (2 of 20)  

  48977.2 in reply to 48977.1  

What are the sources of your "overall buzz" ? Where did you hear that?

  From:  MBAORDEATH   6:33 am  
To:  QIZZSHOW   (3 of 20)  

  48977.3 in reply to 48977.2  

Current students at various B schools, admission consultants who track this process, activity on business week boards etc... Fyi, last year too there was a dip from the peak of 2002, around 10~15%

  From:  XTRMMBA   6:35 am  
To:  MBAORDEATH   (4 of 20)  

  48977.4 in reply to 48977.3  

You are right.  I also think that there seems to be a dip in the number of apps.

However, I have also read/felt/heard that the number of international apps is rising.  Is this true?


  From:  MBAORDEATH   6:46 am  
To:  XTRMMBA   (5 of 20)  

  48977.5 in reply to 48977.4  

well, I would be surprised if the number of international applicants is rising. US placements for the current international student have been the hardest hit. i am an international myself and in my country (india) there is a definite decrease in the number of apps


  From:  XTRMMBA   6:53 am  
To:  MBAORDEATH   (6 of 20)  

  48977.6 in reply to 48977.5  

Are u sure the no of app from India is decreasing?  Most of the Indians work in IT and after 3-5 years of exp move to leadership positions for a team of 5-10.  With the downturn hitting the IT market, a lot of them want to go to b-school and get that management thing going before the economy recovers fully.  What do u think?

May be they are not applying to the top 10 schools bacause of the cost involved.


  From:  MBAORDEATH   6:59 am  
To:  XTRMMBA   (7 of 20)  

  48977.7 in reply to 48977.6  

well you do have a logic here, save two things. one, we have to factor in other significant non IT applicants. two, in india, the big IT cos have increased their hiring and plan to recruit in thousands as the industry is coming out of blue.... but i dont know the specifics, i am not from IT... maybe other indian IT pros can chip in here

  From:  XTRMMBA   7:11 am  
To:  MBAORDEATH   (8 of 20)  

  48977.8 in reply to 48977.7  

one, we have to factor in other significant non IT applicants. two, in india, the big IT cos have increased their hiring and plan to recruit in thousands as the industry is coming out of blue

Significant non-IT applicants? I doubt.  Since you are not from IT, you may say that, but just surf these threads and you'll know that almost every Indian applicant is from IT :-).  Their "international experience" allows them to save a few $$ for the MBA and makes the adcoms think that they could be a better fit than other international apps.  Now all you Indian IT apps, don't start shooting me, I am just saying that there is a lot of similarity in the profiles....

Your second point does have some weight....


  From:  SBHOWMICK   8:13 am  
To:  XTRMMBA   (9 of 20)  

  48977.9 in reply to 48977.8  

lol not gonna shoot you for that :-)

I dont have any basis to say whether apps are down or not since I never checked out for previous years data. But I can say that many of my friends are going for MBA.

   From:  INDON_IBER   9:19 am  
To:  MBAORDEATH   (10 of 20)  

  48977.10 in reply to 48977.1  

I'd be careful about drawing that conclusion...it could be very much an indication of the drop in popularity of the Bweek b-boards, NOT the overall application pool.  Don't fall in the confirmation bias trap.

One way to find out is to ask the few Adcoms on the board.  I know Alex Brown of Wharton is usually pretty open about this stuff.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 10/27/2003 9:20:25 AM ET by INDON_IBER
  

From:  01GSL   9:24 am  
To:  ALL   (11 of 20)  

  48977.11 in reply to 48977.9  

I guess an interesting question would be: IF application numbers are down this year, does that help or hurt those who applied? On the one hand, I guess it could help us, by lowering the numbers and causing the admissions staff to accept people they normally wouldn't, just to fill the class.

Or, on the other hand, what if this year's applicants were just a strong, self-selected pool, with higher quality, but just lower numbers of applicants?

Any thoughts?

  From:  JLATROB   9:42 am  
To:  MBAORDEATH   (12 of 20)  

  48977.12 in reply to 48977.1  

Yeah, but the drop in apps does not really mean that it is any less competitive.


  From:  SHALINP1   10:35 am  
To:  INDON_IBER unread  (13 of 20)  

  48977.13 in reply to 48977.10  

It's not just this board.  The WSJ reported recently the # of people taking the gmat is way down.
  

  From:  CJAKP98   10:38 am  
To:  SHALINP1   (14 of 20)  

  48977.14 in reply to 48977.13  

That too can be skewed....GMAT scores are good for 5 years.  I took my only GMAT last year and am applying to schools for the first time this year.

  From:  GT4674B   11:55 am  
To:  ALL   (15 of 20)  

  48977.15 in reply to 48977.14  

I went to the UNC chat with their adcomms last week and they said that the numbers of apps is definitely down but they don't know by how much yet.  For what its worth, anyway.

  From:  CHEENUSINGH   12:42 pm  
To:  ALL   (16 of 20)  

  48977.16 in reply to 48977.15  

If this helps:

According to US embassy in India, this year they issued around 18,000 student visas to Indians. Last year this number was 21,000. A derop of 3,000..... in the number of student visas.

Also Couple of months back, US Embassy reported that unlike an increas of 20% in applications for student visa, last year it was negative..... so that also bolsters the claim that Indian applicants are reducing....

XTRAM is correct in many ways as most Indian students have IT background. I had the same experience in my grad studies.... as well as in teh application process now.

I guess competition would be down as:

- Increased hiring by Industry in India by Big S/W companies

- Fluid placement scenario in the US

- H-1b issues.... the biggest pain in the neck.....


  From:  techie (TECHIE_DUDE)   1:36 pm  
To:  GT4674B   (17 of 20)  

  48977.17 in reply to 48977.15  

I remember 2001 this board was full of buzz before the Round 1 deadlines. This year  it is a dead duck. Also if i take my particular demographic pool i don't know anyone from my circles applying for Bschool - also i think Wharton reported that the number of applicants attending the sessions have gone down - i think these are all indicators that the

number of applicants gone down - but i am sure there will be no dirth of good applicants


My Diary http://techiedude.blogspot.com


  From:  GERTI7   1:56 pm  
To:  techie (TECHIE_DUDE)   (18 of 20)  

  48977.18 in reply to 48977.17  

I agree.  The people that were ready for MBA's will still apply.  Also, we all know that these schools had 10% acceptance ratios, and reject a lot of good candidates.  Maybe they will have to bump that up to 11% this year.  Not a huge change.

  From:  SHALINP1   2:57 pm  
To:  ALL   (19 of 20)  

  48977.19 in reply to 48977.18  

Agreed.  The schools that will suffer the most will be 2nd and 3rd tier private schools- people will be too scared to take on the high debt levels.  I don't think cheap public schools will have a big drop-off though.


   From:  HUMGOOGLER   7:41 pm  
To:  ALL   (20 of 20)  

  48977.20 in reply to 48977.2  

BTW,

a college senior who is a recent HBS alum confirmed this, quoting inside sources. Good for all concerned!

-g
沙发
 楼主| 发表于 2003-10-28 09:25:00 | 只看该作者
From:  NJUK2003   6:18 pm  
To:  ALL   (1 of 1)  

  48998.1  

Here's an idea - the economy is starting to swing back and that means less people are out there unhappy in present positions and therefore willing to take the bschool plunge.  Word on the Street is that things are very very much on the upswing.  I hope -- in fact almost expect -- that this should translate into an MBA admissions cycle that is more like 1999 or 2000 than 2001 or 2002.

Wall Street will have a record year this year, making more money than even in 2000 -- and is spreading it much thinner over a smaller workforce.  (Seems like the $10K referrals are back as well -- at least at Lehman!)

Lehman, Merrill Show Good Times Ahead for Bankers: Matthew Lynn

Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Casual extravagance has always been the one thing investment bankers like most. But for the last two years, every natural instinct they possess has had to be ruthlessly suppressed.

Thousand-dollar bottles of wine were left unordered. Glittering towers of chrome and glass were left unoccupied. Million-dollar bonuses were left unpaid.

But now there are the first faint signs they can get back to being their natural selves -- like small children equipped with a Toys `R' Us Inc. store card with unlimited credit.

In investment banking, the good times seem to be coming back. The only odd thing is that no one wants to talk about it.

Earlier this month, Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. said it was offering employees as much as $10,000 to refer new workers to the firm. You need to find a vice president in order to collect the top reward, but smaller amounts are being paid right down the line. (Memo to Lehman's personnel department: For a couple of grand, I can give you our babysitter's phone number.)

Merrill Lynch & Co. also said this month that the salary freeze it announced almost two years ago was being lifted. ``We are a premium employer and we want to ensure that we continue to pay at premium levels for the best talent we have,'' Merrill Chief Financial Officer Ahmass Fakahany said in a conference call with analysts and investors.

Last week, J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. reported a $1.63 billion profit for the third quarter, after struggling to break even in the year-earlier period. More interestingly, expenses increased, ``primarily driven by higher incentives resulting from improved financial performance.'' That sounds like it's a better time to be working at J.P. Morgan.

Record Profits

The Securities Industry Association, which represents most of the big Wall Street firms, predicted this month that the U.S. securities industry would make record profits in 2003. It expects the firms to make a collective $22.45 billion this year, more than the $21 billion in profits earned in the previous record year, 2000. In London, the Centre for Economics & Business Research Ltd. said last month that banks, insurance companies and fund managers may hire about 3,000 people next year as stock markets recover.

Suddenly, the only kind of news coming out of the banking industry is good news.

There are two points to be made about the recovery in investment banking.

First, it reminds us just how extraordinarily profitable the capital markets are. Think of what the world has been through in recent years: the bursting of the greatest stock-market bubble in history, a global decline with a full-scale recession in much of Europe, a war in the Middle East, and a series of financial scandals, exposing the banks as frequently cynical and manipulative.

A Golden Year

And what happens? The investment banks shrug it all off and come up with one of their best years ever.

Just how much money would these people make if the economy were in good shape?

There is no great mystery about why the recovery is so swift. Headline-grabbing work in mergers and acquisitions may be in the doldrums, and equity markets have only staged a tepid comeback. To the casual observer, banking may still look like an industry in crisis.

Yet underneath, the real engines of profitability have been quietly purring. Selling and trading bonds can still be described as hugely lucrative. Fund management makes money. Private equity divisions have bounced back. An investment bank remains a moneymaking machine in bad times as well as good.

Bright Future

From now on, it's only likely to get better. Governments in the U.S. and Europe are issuing record amounts of debt. Someone will have to find investors for all that paper.

The market for initial public offerings, which has been virtually frozen for two years, may be about to thaw. An IPO by Google Inc., which the Financial Times said last week is considering a share sale, would be the event to set the ball rolling again. If it does go public, lots of other companies may follow suit.

Even the M&A market could start to recover as the money and confidence returns to shake up industries again. For the bankers, that would put the icing back on what is already a very rich- looking cake.

But, the boom also reminds us just what an odd industry investment banking is. Chief executive officers are avoiding any talk about what a good year they are having. Why? Because if they discuss it, their employees will start asking for more money -- and then it won't be a good year anymore.

Sweet Spot

Right now, banking CEOs are in a rare sweet spot. Revenue figures are improving, but the workers are quiet. There are still lots of unemployed bankers out there and that is keeping wages under control. The cuts of the last two years have made banks leaner, and few have had the chance yet to put on any flab. For the moment, revenue is growing a lot faster than costs -- making for record profits.

That can't last. Once the bankers realize that the good times have already started for their employers, they will demand bigger salaries and bonuses for themselves.

Bonuses for recruiting at Lehman will just be the start. Sommeliers can dust off the wine cellars, and developers can start fitting out their towers. Casual extravagance will soon be back.

Last Updated: October 27, 2003 03:35 EST

板凳
发表于 2003-10-28 09:56:00 | 只看该作者
老人家说的好“战略上要藐视敌人,战术上要重视敌人。”

偶们有无数的理由可以在战略上藐视敌人,但是中国的人口是13亿,这几年大学扩招(导致有大学文凭的人呈几何人数增加),MBA狂热(导致申请MBA的人狂多),因特网迅速普及(使大家都明白了MBA是个好咚咚),如果说全世界的MBA申请人人数在下降的话,中华人民共和国的申请人数必然会逆流而上、一枝独秀。

尽管今年非典耽误了很多人的考试,但是去年签证突然收紧政策的后果是大批的已经被录取的兄弟姐妹们选择了(或被迫)推迟一年入学。今年的名额已经所剩不多了。

然而,在这样激烈竞争下终于能够出去的中国子民们必然都是厉害的角色。努力吧!
地板
发表于 2003-10-28 15:50:00 | 只看该作者
以下是引用Shuzhen在2003-10-28 9:56:00的发言:
老人家说的好“战略上要藐视敌人,战术上要重视敌人。”

偶们有无数的理由可以在战略上藐视敌人,但是中国的人口是13亿,这几年大学扩招(导致有大学文凭的人呈几何人数增加),MBA狂热(导致申请MBA的人狂多),因特网迅速普及(使大家都明白了MBA是个好咚咚),如果说全世界的MBA申请人人数在下降的话,中华人民共和国的申请人数必然会逆流而上、一枝独秀。

尽管今年非典耽误了很多人的考试,但是去年签证突然收紧政策的后果是大批的已经被录取的兄弟姐妹们选择了(或被迫)推迟一年入学。今年的名额已经所剩不多了。

然而,在这样激烈竞争下终于能够出去的中国子民们必然都是厉害的角色。努力吧!



这么说来都难以乐观了。。。
5#
发表于 2003-10-28 17:09:00 | 只看该作者
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