10年后MBA能够给你带来什么？

tsljz

这是BW上面刚刚结束的一个chat，主持人是BW的一个作者，她刚刚完成一个1992届MBA的调查。下面是chat的transcript。

MICABW:
12:58 pm Hi, everyone! Thanks for joining us today.


MICABW:
12:58 pm To ask a question, type it into the box and click on Ask.


MICABW:
12:59 pm We'll get started at 1:00 p.m. (ET). Until then, the floor is open for questions.


MICABW:
12:59 pm Our guest today is Jennifer Merritt, BusinessWeek's management education editor.


MICABW:
1:00 pm My name is Mica Schneider. I'm your co-host for today's chat, and also one of BW Online's reporters covering management education.


BRIANBW:
1:00 pm And I'm Brian Hindo, a reporter for BW Online and BusinessWeek magazine.


MICABW:
1:00 pm Thanks for joining us, everyone. And hello, Jen!...


JMERRITTBW:
1:00 pm Hello!


JMERRITTBW:
1:00 pm ...


MICABW:
1:00 pm Jen, can you begin by telling us


MICABW:
1:00 pm why the magazine decided to survey the


MICABW:
1:00 pm MBA class of 1992?...


JMERRITTBW:
1:01 pm There's been much debate the last two years about


JMERRITTBW:
1:01 pm the value of the MBA-- whether or not the degree was


JMERRITTBW:
1:01 pm worthwhile. We decided


JMERRITTBW:
1:01 pm that we should try to find out


JMERRITTBW:
1:01 pm so, we picked a class that had some time to test drive the


JMERRITTBW:
1:02 pm skills to take a stab at answering the question...


BRIANBW:
1:02 pm Looks like most MBAs surveyed found the degree worthwhile. What in particular did the Class of '92 find most useful?


JMERRITTBW:
1:02 pm One biggie: confidence


JMERRITTBW:
1:02 pm confidence in doing business, confidence in their now time-tested


JMERRITTBW:
1:02 pm managerial skills, plus confidence in their


JMERRITTBW:
1:02 pm knowledge of the basics B-school teaches...


MICABW:
1:03 pm We've already got some good questions from the audience today, but first can you tell us


MICABW:
1:03 pm how BusinessWeek surveyed the class?...


JMERRITTBW:
1:03 pm We used both an online and paper survey


JMERRITTBW:
1:03 pm We asked BW's Top 30 schools to help us contact their


JMERRITTBW:
1:04 pm '92 alums--most did--and sent out the surveys late this spring.


JMERRITTBW:
1:04 pm ...


BRIANBW:
1:04 pm Here's a question from the audience:


BRYANPBOYD:
1:04 pm Given the number of very large salaries and large bonuses in the survey, did you consider tossing out high and low salries to come up with an accurate snapshot of salaries?


JMERRITTBW:
1:04 pm Actually, we believed -- and statisticians validated this -- that the highs and lows


JMERRITTBW:
1:04 pm are an accurate snapshot. Some alums


JMERRITTBW:
1:04 pm are wildly successful and highly compensated, some


JMERRITTBW:
1:05 pm fall in the middle, and some fall


JMERRITTBW:
1:05 pm in the lower ends. Salaries ranged


JMERRITTBW:
1:05 pm from as low as $70,000 for someone


JMERRITTBW:
1:05 pm working full time to the


JMERRITTBW:
1:05 pm million-dollar ranges. All told


JMERRITTBW:
1:05 pm they combine for a good portrait...


BRIANBW:
1:06 pm would providing median numbers have resulted in a much different picture than the table that presents average salary figures?


JMERRITTBW:
1:06 pm Medians would have been lower, yes. But, not much lower than the overall average of all respondents...


MICABW:
1:06 pm Jen, the topic of salaries reminds me:


MICABW:
1:07 pm did you notice a pay gap between the women and the men who responded to the survey?...


JMERRITTBW:
1:07 pm Yes -- and it was a significant one. Counting only those working full time,


JMERRITTBW:
1:07 pm women's salaries were an average of $50,000 less than male alums' salaries...


BRIANBW:
1:08 pm Here's another question from the audience:


FUNDY11:
1:08 pm What was the economy like when the class of 92 hit the streets ? How did they cope ?


JMERRITTBW:
1:08 pm Interestingly, the economy then was much like it is today -- just inching toward recovery from a


JMERRITTBW:
1:08 pm recession. There were fewer MBAs graduating from top schools then, and while


MICABW:
1:08 pm Our topic today is, "What's an MBA Really Worth?" To ask a question, please type it into the box below, and click on Ask.


JMERRITTBW:
1:08 pm many found themselves still searching for work after graduation, nearly all of them had jobs


JMERRITTBW:
1:09 pm by a few months out. Some of them told us they just took whatever


JMERRITTBW:
1:09 pm job they could find -- one of the alums we write about


JMERRITTBW:
1:09 pm took a job in a canning factory as a floor manager -- not glamorous at all. Now his company


JMERRITTBW:
1:09 pm rakes in $30 million in revenues...


MICABW:
1:09 pm Jen, some members of our audience wonder why some B-schools decided not to participate in the survey.


MICABW:
1:09 pm Can you shed any light on that?


MICABW:
1:10 pm ...


JMERRITTBW:
1:10 pm There were a variety of reasons. Some schools simply did not want their alums to be surveyed.


JMERRITTBW:
1:10 pm Another said they felt it would not be worthwhile for the school


JMERRITTBW:
1:10 pm to have their alums participate, and others


JMERRITTBW:
1:10 pm felt that helping us distribute the survey was too much work. Still, we made an effort (and


JMERRITTBW:
1:11 pm successfully) to contact alums from schools who did not want their alums surveyed...


JRCOFC17:
1:11 pm Did those who attended the top 10 schools fair better then the MBAs from other shools?


JMERRITTBW:
1:11 pm It depends on what you mean by "fair better" -- many from outside the top 10


MICABW:
1:12 pm Our topic today is, "What's an MBA Really Worth?" To ask a question, please type it into the box below, and click on Ask.


JMERRITTBW:
1:12 pm commanded high salaries and bonuses... and there seemed to be


JMERRITTBW:
1:12 pm an equal distribution of alums who held top spots


JMERRITTBW:
1:12 pm in their companies, although I did notice that there were slightly more C-level


JMERRITTBW:
1:12 pm titles mentioned at the Top 10. That said, many alums


JMERRITTBW:
1:13 pm outside the Top 10 seemed to feel just as prepared as many in the Top 10. Overall, I think 10


JMERRITTBW:
1:13 pm years out, there's a premium for alums at some of the "names you know" but it's not as


JMERRITTBW:
1:13 pm gigantic as you might have thought...


MICABW:
1:13 pm Jen, even though BW surveyed alumni from full-time MBA programs. I wonder if you can still take a stab at this next question:


HILLS123:
1:13 pm If time constraints weren`t an issue, would you recommend somone attending a full-time MBA program or an Exec MBA program? What is the difference b/w these programs? And, are they perceived differently in the marketplace?


JMERRITTBW:
1:14 pm A full-time program is generally geared toward someone with 3-5 years work experience while


JMERRITTBW:
1:14 pm an EMBA program is geared toward someone with 8-15 years work experience -- someone who is


JMERRITTBW:
1:14 pm already at a senior management level. It's not so much a time constraint issue, but rather an


JMERRITTBW:
1:15 pm issue of where you are in your career. Many alums of 1992 mentioned


JMERRITTBW:
1:15 pm that those looking at B-school today should ask themselves


JMERRITTBW:
1:15 pm whether they need the MBA at the current moment to move to the next level. If you've


JMERRITTBW:
1:15 pm already moved up to higher levels of management, the EMBA might be more useful and relevant to you...


BRIANBW:
1:15 pm Here's an audience member who wonders about what downsides to the MBA were captured by the survey:


CUBBIE0327:
1:16 pm what percentage of alumni responded negatively to your survey-(not sure if this was covered in the article since i havent read it yet)


JMERRITTBW:
1:16 pm There were some negative responses -- across the board, alums from almost every school felt


JMERRITTBW:
1:16 pm unprepared to face issues surrounding international business, entreprenuership and information technology. And


JMERRITTBW:
1:17 pm many gave low marks to their alumni networks. Still others felt that their MBA educations were too grandiose


JMERRITTBW:
1:17 pm and geared toward CEO-think, and not enough toward the everyday life of


JMERRITTBW:
1:17 pm an MBA manager just starting out...


BRIANBW:
1:18 pm Can you say more about alumni networks -- that's one of the benefits B-schools tout...


JMERRITTBW:
1:18 pm Indeed -- turns out their not all they're advertised to be. Even


JMERRITTBW:
1:18 pm at schools with storied alumni networks, the connections were weak, and alums gave medioce marks to


JMERRITTBW:
1:18 pm the alumni network and its helpfulness...


MICABW:
1:19 pm Do we have an idea of which schools have the


MICABW:
1:19 pm best networks?


MICABW:
1:19 pm ...


JMERRITTBW:
1:19 pm Stanford, Harvard and Dartmouth came out on top, but


JMERRITTBW:
1:20 pm even they scored just at a 6 (on a 1-10 scale). After these,


JMERRITTBW:
1:20 pm the scores get much lower...


JMERRITTBW:
1:20 pm I'm sorry, I forgot, Kellogg and MIT also scored around a 6...


BRIANBW:
1:20 pm A lot of audience members are wondering about outcomes for different concentrations or majors? Did the survey capture this type of info?


JMERRITTBW:
1:21 pm We did capture this data, but it's been a little difficult to parse through because some 25% of alums


MICABW:
1:21 pm Our topic today is, "What's an MBA Really Worth?" To ask a question, please type it into the box below, and click on Ask.


JMERRITTBW:
1:21 pm changed industries since graduation. I'm working on it and hope to have a story at BusinessWeek Online on this subject in the next few weeks...


MICABW:
1:22 pm Jen, did BusinessWeek cut the data to see how "international" alumni (meaning, those who hail from countries other than the U.S.) fared compared to their U.S. classmates?...


JMERRITTBW:
1:22 pm Yes -- and it turned out the degree was


JMERRITTBW:
1:22 pm even more valuable for them. They reported higher salaries, more promotions and bigger bonuses. They


JMERRITTBW:
1:23 pm also reported better connections with alums (largely with other international alums) and slightly more satisfaction


JMERRITTBW:
1:23 pm with the degree than their US-counterparts...


WJJAPAN:
1:23 pm How many alums would attend a different program if they could do it all over again?


JMERRITTBW:
1:23 pm About 17% said they'd attend a different school and about 4% said they weren't sure if they'd go to the same school or a different one...


TSLJZ:
1:24 pm which areas of MBA education do they feel most important to their career?


JMERRITTBW:
1:24 pm That's actually a tricky question -- many, many alums reported that the Org. Behavior classes


JMERRITTBW:
1:24 pm were most important, but that they didn't pay enough attention to them. But, after that, many


JMERRITTBW:
1:25 pm reported --sometimes anecdotally--that finance, marketing and strategy were key to their success. Many also


JMERRITTBW:
1:25 pm said that simply being able to speak the language of business and management -- found throughout the program -- was key...


BRIANBW:
1:25 pm Returning briefly to the matter of attending a different B-school -- what schools did alumni say they'd like to attend most, if they had it over?


JMERRITTBW:
1:26 pm #1 was Stanford, #2 was Harvard, #3 was Kellogg and #4 (nearly tied with Kellogg) was Wharton...


ADECAUNES:
1:26 pm Hello - I had a question about not ranking certain programs like the Sloan Fellows Program or the MIT SDM Program..was there a reason they were excluded?


JMERRITTBW:
1:27 pm To keep an apples to apples comparison, we used the main full-time MBA class. But, folks who are Sloan Fellows were part of


JMERRITTBW:
1:27 pm the MBA class, and were included in the survey...


BRIANBW:
1:27 pm And to make clear, it wasn't a ranking, right?


JMERRITTBW:
1:27 pm Exactly...


JOHN_URDANET:
1:27 pm In retrospect, did the alums feel that the financial burden out of school was worth it?


JMERRITTBW:
1:27 pm Yes. But, here's a kicker -- they graduated with half the debt that today's MBA grads have


JMERRITTBW:
1:28 pm so it wasn't as big a leap. They had an average


JMERRITTBW:
1:28 pm of $20,000 debt, but left salaries of about


JMERRITTBW:
1:28 pm $37,000 and graduated to jobs with salaries averaging


JMERRITTBW:
1:28 pm $56,000 or so. The burden has increased exponentially and


JMERRITTBW:
1:28 pm alums I interviewed said they'd have to think hard about taking on the


JMERRITTBW:
1:29 pm kind of debt burden today's grads do -- though, by the end of each of


JMERRITTBW:
1:29 pm those conversations, they all said they thought they would do it again, even at today's debt possibilities...


MICABW:
1:29 pm That raises a question I hope you'll take a crack at: do you think that an MBA still worth the debt load in 2003? And have B-schools changed enough, in your opinion, to warrant the rising costs?


MICABW:
1:30 pm Meaning, are the programs really that different in 2003?...


JMERRITTBW:
1:30 pm That's an interesting debate -- there are a number of B-school professors and even a few deans


JMERRITTBW:
1:30 pm that say the MBA is on the verge of pricing itself out of the market (Clay Christensen of Harvard is one of them) and


JMERRITTBW:
1:31 pm that perhaps what's being offered isn't keeping up with the cost of getting the degree. That said,


JMERRITTBW:
1:31 pm it seems that the 1992 alums felt it was worth the cost -- they did pay tuitions of about $23,000 per year -- today it's


JMERRITTBW:
1:32 pm more like $32,000 or higher at top schools. As an observer of the B-school


JMERRITTBW:
1:32 pm world, I do think B-schools have evolved to a high degree, even if they're not keeping


JMERRITTBW:
1:32 pm pace with the rising tuition. In some careers, the MBA credential


JMERRITTBW:
1:33 pm is essential. The question might be, is the education and credential it brings worth it? And, popular


JMERRITTBW:
1:33 pm opinion is that in this society, it might be...


JEFFREYSFONG:
1:33 pm looking back at their b-school experience, what are the most important factors that they would consider in choosing a school and what are the best ways to find out this info before you attend the school


JMERRITTBW:
1:34 pm The 92 alums said they chose their schools based on a few key items, such as


JMERRITTBW:
1:34 pm the quality of the professors, the ranking of the school and particular expertise a school had.


JMERRITTBW:
1:34 pm But, some of what you might be getting at is outside those arenas -- many mentioned that they


JMERRITTBW:
1:35 pm learned as much from their classmates as the did from their professors. Perhaps the


JMERRITTBW:
1:35 pm best way to find out how good the teachers are, and how capable your classmates might be, would be to


JMERRITTBW:
1:35 pm visit campus while classes are in session. Or, you might


JMERRITTBW:
1:36 pm ask current students. There's also a tremendous wealth of information on the BusinessWeek Web site...


MICABW:
1:36 pm Jen, let's back up to your previous thoughts on 'an MBA's worth at such high costs in 2003?' Some second- or third-tier schools still offer MBAs at a discount compared to BW's top-ranked programs. Has BW got an idea if the professional payoff is quite so grand at lesser-ranked schools?...


JMERRITTBW:
1:36 pm Not really -- and here's why: We first wanted to survey second tier schools along with the Top 30, but


JMERRITTBW:
1:37 pm when we contacted some of the second tier schools, alumni lists were sparse -- and we felt


JMERRITTBW:
1:37 pm there wouldn't be enough to work with. That said, anecdotally, I did hear from alums who had looked for new jobs (those who


JMERRITTBW:
1:38 pm answered our survey) that their friends without MBAs didn't have their calls returned as often -- the MBA and the name


JMERRITTBW:
1:38 pm of their school helped...


BRIANBW:
1:38 pm We're getting some questions about the role prior work experience played in career outcomes. I know having multiple years of work before the MBA wasn't as common back then, but did the survey shed any light on this?


JMERRITTBW:
1:38 pm Anecdotally, yes. Many alums who went right from undergrad to B-school, or who had only a year or so experience


JMERRITTBW:
1:39 pm said they wished they'd had a little more work experience before attending B-school. That said, I saw


MICABW:
1:39 pm Our topic today is, "What's an MBA Really Worth?" To ask a question, please type it into the box below, and click on Ask.


JMERRITTBW:
1:39 pm little difference in those alums' salaries -- they were slightly less satisfied, largely because they had


JMERRITTBW:
1:40 pm less experience to show them how to apply what they had learned...


WJJAPAN:
1:40 pm How many alums donate to their schools?


BRIANBW:
1:40 pm And how much?


JMERRITTBW:
1:40 pm About 75% give to charity overall. Slightly fewer give to their MBA programs...


JMERRITTBW:
1:41 pm How much -- well,


JMERRITTBW:
1:41 pm an average of about $947 in the last two years -- more to their undergrad alma maters...


MICABW:
1:41 pm And just to make things more confusing: do alumns from some schools donate more than others?...


JMERRITTBW:
1:42 pm Yes, actually -- HArvard alums had some stand-out donations in general and to their schools, and


JMERRITTBW:
1:42 pm ...


BRIANBW:
1:42 pm Here's one from the audience:


DENBO77:
1:43 pm what`s changed in terms of student demographics (i.e. average age, work experience before school, etc) between the class of 1992 and what business schools are seeing today?


JMERRITTBW:
1:43 pm Average age in 1992 (according to our 1992 full-time MBA survey) was about 24 or 25. Today, it's 27 years-old. Average work experience in 1992 was 2 to 3 years. Today, it's nearly


JMERRITTBW:
1:44 pm 5 years. B-schools are seeing two trends. First,


JMERRITTBW:
1:44 pm with a tough economy, some companies don't want to/can't pay the high salaries of the late 90s -- but


JMERRITTBW:
1:45 pm at the same time, B-schools are trying to capture more women in their classes, so they're


JMERRITTBW:
1:45 pm looking more and more at folks with less experience. That said,


JMERRITTBW:
1:45 pm companies still want MBAs who can hit the ground running. It's sort of a push and pull. Some schools,


JMERRITTBW:
1:45 pm like Harvard and Stanford and Wharton, are actively pursuing


MICABW:
1:46 pm We're approaching the end of our time today. If you have a question for Jennifer Merritt, now's the time to ask it!


JMERRITTBW:
1:46 pm younger applicants, with little or no experience. But they're still the exception. In general,


JMERRITTBW:
1:46 pm B-schools respond to what companies who hire MBAs want in terms of work experience...


MICABW:
1:46 pm Two questions here, first


FUNDY11:
1:46 pm Why are some of the alums from 92 umemployed today ?


MICABW:
1:46 pm And why is it that women tend to be


MICABW:
1:46 pm unemployed at a higher rate than men?


MICABW:
1:46 pm ...


JMERRITTBW:
1:47 pm The same reasons that more than 6% of Americans are unemployed -- corporate cutbacks. As for


JMERRITTBW:
1:47 pm the issue of women being unemployed -- actually, they are involuntarily unemployed (ie, laid off or fired)


JMERRITTBW:
1:47 pm at a lesser rate than men (2.7% vs. 1.6%) but, many


JMERRITTBW:
1:48 pm more women are VOLUNTARILY unemployed, that is, they've


JMERRITTBW:
1:48 pm left the work force on their own. Many left to spend time with their children...


JDASARI:
1:48 pm How many or rather what percentage of these alums were career changers?


JMERRITTBW:
1:48 pm About 25% changed industries from their first post-MBA job to their current job...


JMERRITTBW:
1:49 pm Anecdotally, many changed careers from pre-MBA to post...


JEFFREYSFONG:
1:49 pm is there a difference in overall satisfaction of MBA`s who went to public (i.e. Berkeley) vs private due to cost


JMERRITTBW:
1:49 pm Not that I could detect. As I mentioned earlier, alums from schools lower in the Top 30 were slightly (only


JMERRITTBW:
1:50 pm slightly) less satisfied and got much less use from alumni networks, but, I did not see a big


JMERRITTBW:
1:50 pm difference in overall satisfaction in public versus private. I did see, however,


JMERRITTBW:
1:50 pm a number of alums who said one factor in choosing the school they attended was


JMERRITTBW:
1:50 pm cost...


TSLJZ:
1:50 pm except consulting and banking, in what other industries do alumni find MBA essential to success?


MICABW:
1:51 pm We're approaching the end of our time today -- just 10 minutes left! If you have a question for Jennifer Merritt, now's the time to ask it...


JMERRITTBW:
1:52 pm I can't exactly answer that from the data, but many alums in Consumer Goods companies and Tech companies seemed to get a lot out of the degree. That said, among alums who own businesses (everything from restaurants to logistics wharehouses, etc) said the MBA was essential. Being in


JMERRITTBW:
1:52 pm top management often made the degree even more worthwhile, it seemed anecdotally...


JWCHIEN:
1:52 pm What are some of the reasons for salary disparity between women and men?


JMERRITTBW:
1:53 pm First, spent slightly less time with each of their post-MBA employers (they changed jobs mroe often), second,


JMERRITTBW:
1:53 pm among full-time working women, women worked about 7 hours less per week than men, and


JMERRITTBW:
1:53 pm women also took more breaks from work -- breaks that took them


JMERRITTBW:
1:54 pm off what might be a regular schedule of promotions. Still other women said


JMERRITTBW:
1:54 pm they purposely took lower paying jobs with less responsibility or fewer work hours in order


JMERRITTBW:
1:54 pm to better balance their lives...


BRYANPBOYD:
1:54 pm With more and more executives coming out of pocket for EMBAs, do you plan on a similar study for those programs?


JMERRITTBW:
1:55 pm Not currently... but it's an interesting idea...


MICABW:
1:55 pm And some members of our audience want to know


MICABW:
1:55 pm if you'll be surveying the next class of MBA grads -- 2004 -- to see how


MICABW:
1:55 pm happy they've been with their MBA and future job options....


WHOSAMA03:
1:56 pm From the sound of it, the 2.2 job offers the class of 1992 had upon graduation is a thing of the past as I imagine is there average starting/existing salary -- are there plans to poole recent graduates as a point of comparision?


JMERRITTBW:
1:56 pm We do our biennial survey of MBAs as they graduate (next survey is 2004) and yes, we will be able to draw some comparisons, but it is very important


JMERRITTBW:
1:57 pm to remember that these 1992 alums graduated into some tough times, too -- not so tough as the last few years, but certainly not plentiful times -- and


JMERRITTBW:
1:57 pm we've looked at their long-range use of the degree to get a long-range view. The current graduates


JMERRITTBW:
1:57 pm haven't had time to test the skills and make their way post-MBA...


JIG1999:
1:58 pm What were some of the other "suprises" found in the survey?


JMERRITTBW:
1:58 pm I was surprised at the amount of time MBAs spent at their current companies -- about 5 years. That means


JMERRITTBW:
1:58 pm they have stayed aboard since the boom, and through the bust. Another huge


JMERRITTBW:
1:59 pm surprise (to me) was the number of entreprenuers in the group -- and the fact that the 625 companies they detailed for us


JMERRITTBW:
1:59 pm (ones they started or helped start) now employ some 98,000 people...


MICABW:
1:59 pm We've just about run out of time, but why don't you remind us of some of the class of 1992's favorite MBA lessons,


MICABW:
1:59 pm and some of the areas they think B-schools could improve....


JMERRITTBW:
2:00 pm Some advice from the Class of 1992 for B-schools -- teach more on office politics, bring in speakers who hold the kind of jobs


JMERRITTBW:
2:00 pm that MBAs will hold at graduation (versus just CEO speakers), stay on the cutting edge -- info tech wasn't as hot in 1992, but it


JMERRITTBW:
2:01 pm exploded shortly thereafter, and B-schools weren't there yet. To students or prospective MBA students -- the Class


JMERRITTBW:
2:01 pm of 1992 says absorb all you can from those org. behavior classes, and take the basics seriously -- you might not use


JMERRITTBW:
2:02 pm all of what you learn in the first year or two, but as you move along in your career, it will


JMERRITTBW:
2:02 pm be more and more valuable...


MICABW:
2:02 pm I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.


MICABW:
2:02 pm Thanks for sending in so many great questions, everyone!


MICABW:
2:02 pm And a special thanks to Jennifer Merritt, BW's management education editor,


MICABW:
2:02 pm for joining us today!