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A feeling to the Ivey

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21#
发表于 2006-2-10 10:28:00 | 只看该作者

个人的主观猜测: 要是不承认,那我们都不要去读了,这么个学校不至于到这种地步吧? 另外,听说MBA好多都没有毕业论文.


请上面的校友来问答吧! 顶一下!

22#
发表于 2006-2-10 11:14:00 | 只看该作者
mba应该是没有毕业论文的八
23#
发表于 2006-2-10 14:50:00 | 只看该作者

I personally think: people should think in an objective and positive way.Past is past, how to face the unknown future is what you should think. Every school has its advantage and disadvantage.Although I am not an ivy student, my opinion of the teachers are nice, humorous and sincere.

24#
发表于 2006-2-10 16:21:00 | 只看该作者

回复问题

上面的朋友,


作为IVEY现在的学生, 我确实感到很痛苦---作为加拿大历史悠久, MBA教育典范的名校竟然由于某些校友不负责任的胡说八道被外人曲解成质量低下的垃圾学校.


问题一: 谈到文凭是否承认的问题---只要你人在加拿大, 马路上随便找个人问问全加最好的MBA是哪所学校? UWO的教育质量如何?看看你得到啥答案, 自然心里有数. 我敢负责的说如果有ROTMAN或者SCHULIC的朋友不服气也尽可去问, 而且在IVEY面前还没有哪所加拿大的大学敢拿排名来跟IVEY竞争加拿大最好的学校的. 让FT的排名见鬼去吧, 我不知道NT是啥机构, 所以没办法回答你到底是否承认, 但有一点,如果那鬼机构不承认, 只能说明它瞎了眼.


问题二: 如果你觉得有信心最后三个月不看CASE能过这边的考试, 照样拿文凭的话, 尽可放马过来试试. 另外所有的MBA教育都是没有论文的, 这一点即便你去哈佛也不可能有改变. 另外,我们两年要学六百多个CASE, 如果压缩成一年, 我想你们根本没时间考虑毕业的问题, 能够看完所有的CASE, 上课有质量的讨论, 考试能PASS已经不错了.


最后, 我要对那位校有说:"当初决定权在你手里, 如果说觉得IVEY是烂校不来考就是了, 为什么还要在网上乱说?如果IVEY不好, 你尽可以去ROTMAN, SCHULIC, 没人拿枪指着你去."

25#
发表于 2006-2-10 16:54:00 | 只看该作者

I had a very pleasant talk with Ivy dean in your information session. I like him although I do not apply for Ivy.  Besides, many of the job-seeking stories of your alumni is interesting and thought-provoking. Business is always tough,but I think many Ivy Chinese alumni is tougher.

I do not apply for Ivy because I want a two-year program.
26#
发表于 2006-2-10 17:09:00 | 只看该作者

我解释一下, 我说的 TN 是指 TN Visa, 是指加拿大公民去美国工作所需要的工作签证.


ThomasIvey, 我绝对没有认为 IVEY 是烂校的意思; 我在加拿大也工作好多年了, 我很了解 IVEY 在行业内的地位. 而且我自己我正准备申请, 所以问了我最关心的一个问题.


我知道一些学校的一年 master degree, 去签 TN Visa的时候, 是肯定不被承认的 master 学历的. 我也相信 IVEY 的 12-month MBA 是会被 TN 承认的, 但因为我自己很快要交表申请 IVEY了, 我很希望确认这一点.


当然我不是说毕业以后就一定要去美国找工作,但读一个更好学历的目的也是为了更好的发展; 能签 TN 去美国的话, 也是给自己多一些机会!


所以还请了解的, 热心 IVEY 校友帮我 confirm 一下.


还请 ThomasIvey 晾解, 如果我认为 IVEY 是烂校的话, 我自己就不会想申请, 对吗?


我不知道 MBA 没有毕业论文, 让大家见笑了... 不过没有上过嘛, 所以就问问嘛...

27#
发表于 2006-2-11 02:42:00 | 只看该作者

To sean1255:


I really feel sorry you are still thinking like that. MBA is not a turn-key factory. Have to say not everyone is suitable for business management even they are right now in business schools. I understand you are frustrated staying in Ivey's class, but you have to figure out a way to better live with it since you are already part of it. I can not find reasons to show respect to your words at least your attitude. It's not a professional MBA style.

28#
发表于 2006-3-8 13:33:00 | 只看该作者

To Thomas, BraveMBA and others;


Well, it is your personal opinion that Ivey is the 'best' school, at least for you. Well it is also my opinion that Ivey is far away from 'best' school, it is not who is right, who is wrong. The key issue here is that you guys only talk about 'nice' things about Ivey which to me and I know many Chinese students in Ivey now, do not think so. And to me, I think as Chinese students currently in Ivey, it is our responsibility to tell the real story, whether you think it is good or bad, so that our Chinese applicants can see more clearly about the decision they gonna make.


Realistically, everybody comes to MBA is ambicious and an investor. You could argue that your ambition is more focused on 10-20 years after this, or in the future; but to me, my ambition is more focused on short term, the reason is that if you donot get results in short term, how can you go for the future? if you donot even have a job offer after graduation, how can you dream about being CEO later? well yes, not totally impossible, but how big is the chance?


Also, what you guys keep saying is just a few points: case study method, class contribution, best in Canada and job rate.


Well ask anyone in Ivey, are they really as fancy as you guys talk about?


Case study method -- yes it is good, but only when you thoroughly understand the fundamentals and also you have the experience and insights. Do we, students in Ivey, have that in all the courses? If we donot, then case study method loses all meanings. Of course, over the two years in Ivey, we learn alot. My point is that case study method itself not necessary means the best method, it is just a different way. All roads lead to Rome, so do teaching methods. While case method is a way of learning, we shall not exaggerate the effects. In fact, I think the reason Ivey says case method, is because Harvard uses it too, and Ivey is the second largest case method school. Does that seem to you that case method is used in someway to associate with Harvard?


Class contribution -- well another point that has been exaggerated. Ask any Chinese student in Ivey, does class contribution (40-50% of total) mean challenge and excellence to him or her? You guess the answer. First, students donot have the expertise to really give thoughtful insights (occassionally, maybe), and class contribution simply becomes a competition to raise hands, say some case facts or some not so deep points, and then the ultimate goal is to gain prof's impression marks. Challenging, pushing yourself.... all these fancy words, I really donot see it all. How can you possible give deep insights if you donot have years of experience and then donot even know thorough enough about the fundamentals? Just tell me how.


Best in Canada, arguably yes. But is it the fact that Ivey is losing the battle to others? is it true that the ranking is diving? Yes, rankings have limitations, but at least, they reflect something, and if your rankings in all ranking systems are going down, does that sound alert to you? Confidence is good, but ego is not. As a member of Ivey, of course, I hope Ivey is the best, not only in Canada, better if in the whole world. Because down the road, ranking is an important part of your investment return. But just saying we are number 1 does not achieve the goal, instead, in order to regain the top spot, the first thing we have to do is to admit that we are not number 1 now.


Job rate --- here the tricky part comes in. First the data. Ivey says over 93% last year, pretty exciting. But the evidence is not that clear. Ask Chinese students here, do they think that 93% of Chinese students get job offers? Ask Chinese students, how many get IB and consulting jobs? Ask Chinese students, are they confident that they can get a decent job offer? Yes of course, there are Chinese students get offers, for sure, but not that high percentage, and the quality of job offers is even worse. Just like I said before, first your ROI, calculate that and think about it. Second, without a decent job to start with, why you so sure about becoming 'leaders' tomorrow? Is there something missing here? Show me your logic.


And very last, personally I feel Ivey is disappointing, probably my expectation is different than future leaders. That is why I post my opinions to alert some applicants who might have the same concerns like mine. Any comments are welcome, but first do not use some insulting words, your angriness shows exactly that I am right; second, if you have different opinions, do not just say, show solid evidence. Eventually, our discussion here is to provide applicants a better view about Ivey, and then they can decide by themselves.



29#
发表于 2006-3-8 13:50:00 | 只看该作者

well exactly! If a year ago, somebody in Ivey could post some truths about the school, then I would definitely choose not to come. However, a year ago, fancy stuff about Ivey was flooding here....that is why now I am in and see the truth, and I think it is my responsibility to let other applicants know.


I am here, point of no return. I have to try my best to survive here, but by sharing my experience, then others might think again before making the decision, that is all.

30#
发表于 2006-3-9 14:12:00 | 只看该作者
Well, thank you all guys for showing us a very insightful debate here. Agree with sean1225 that any abusive word or coarse language is inappropriate to the debate.
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