【1.19更新】深夜吐槽一下在美国找工作的现状。名校就好找工作么?

412672030

最近我一直有个困惑,是回上海去四大做m&a,还是留在美国小公司做税呢?美国公司小,全职员工就个位数,但是愿意sponsor h1b,请过来人给点经验吧

cheesechan

注册了真好 发表于 2015-11-5 14:34
以前真的没有想到M7/S16的master会和MBA之间有这么不可逾越的差距。我们明明和MBA一起上课一起参与评分curve，待遇却是千差万别。我们真是处于”操着MBA的心，找着本科生的工作，然而还找不到”的尴尬局面。

Actually the most important point is for sure not the grade, but the regonition of the soceity.
Of course one key point is: is the career service of master seperated from MBA? I guess very likely.....

why an MBA　worth the tuition is:
1. the title of MBA, and the school
2. the network of classmate, which is tons of experienced profesional from different discipline
3. the career service
which one did a per-experience MS have?
well........the reason why people focus on if a master is "water" or not, or teach enough teachnical skills or not, is not only because a MS lack all these important element of a business school, nor only becuase the visa policy against non-STEM, but becuase: most entry role are doing hand-on job, so the skills is way more important. it is not the junior to do the presentation, but just to prepare the presentation for senior to present; it is not the junior to really to present the result, it is the junior to build to excel for analysis.........and this is exactly the logic why business education is left mainly for those with a few year of experience, instead of undergraduate or fresh graduate.

[offt opic]
咁講啦, 其實到而家我都唔明, 點解咁多人咁鍾意燒錢去美國讀pre-experience的business master.

美國不是中國, 也不是歐陸, 絕大多數的學生, 都是學士畢業就直接就業, 中間year 2/3/4的暑假早就去了做internship.
根本沒幾份工作要碩士才能申的....所以多數是本科學科不夠好, 做不夠internship或是暫時找不到工作的才會好諗, buy a 2nd chance.
[excluding STEM]

當然, 好的學生也是極少會讀business的, 尤其是management, marketing之流. 本科也好, MS也好, soft business都是留給二流學生諗的, no offense.
不信的話, 查一查, Ivy, or similar level top university, or even M7/ S16 level top business school, 約top 20左右的學校當中, 應該只有三四間左右, 在bachelor level會有這類主修可選(if i remember correctly, they are Wharton, Stern and Hass only)
至於有management, marketing之類master的business school有多少間, 這個大家都心中有數了.

一個good business school student需要的個性, 如good social skills, good presentation, communication等等, 都不是從coursework可以學到的.
對於一個美國學生來說, 這些都是中小學, 或者大學的課外活動的事: 美國文化自少就鼓勵學生多表現自己, more presentation than exam only since primary school, 各類的sports 去訓練leadership, and etc....

=> business主要是留給那些不知道喜歡讀甚麼好的weak student的, if one is talking from the point of elite education.
其實不只是美國, 英國歐陸也是如此, oxbrdige也不會有business undergraduate, 歐陸的正統大學也極少以商科聞名.



back to international student, or chinese student,
如果是名校, 回國有用就另計, 不過given絕大多數美國top level business school都沒有幾個business master的時候....能進top business school pre-experience master的人數可想而知.
Of course what I mean by top business school means the school is really well-regarded in business, instead only having a overall "reputation" on the ranking, or famous in some unrelated discipline.


P.S.1 當然, 再多說都沒有用, 反正版上的很多都是business undergraduate, 從升學選擇的角度上, 本身一早輸在起跑線上.
一個讀, say applied mathematics的學生, 想讀CS/stat master沒問題, 想讀MFE有數學編程背景明顯優於pure finance student, 想去讀MiM the door is still open; imagine the choice for a general finance or business school........good luck.

Here I don't mean business is necessarily a bad major, but just a bad one for those who plan to do graduate school.
It may be a better one for those who plan to work directly after graduation.

P.S.2
所謂地域優勢, location is very important, that's true.
說到底, 難聽一點說就是, 因為公司根本不care是甚麼學校, 讀了甚麼, 因為business is not a technical discipline, 根本不用讀碩士. 要的是related working experience, internship, and part-time.
international 讀這樣一個master的目的, 就是為了relocation; 誇張一點說, 這樣一個master的本質不是學習, 而是作為一張期權, 一塊stepping stone, 用來buy time and visa來在他鄉找工作用的....

and therefore we don't care if a master is academically "water" or not in business. Things in lecture and in books are easy and can be self study anyway.....
which is definitly different in STEM: imagine an STEM student go to an interview, which is very likely a technical one......

seventeennorth

chyy91 发表于 2015-11-5 14:38
搬个小板凳围观注册君带头吐槽就业哈哈~

楼上说的名校和地理位置之类的因素参考都对，个人认为单就会计就 ...

“学校的connection更胜于地理位置和个人努力”
能做到的目前也只有vandy和wfu了吧。更多耳熟能详的top会计项目仍然是学生多，竞争大。就算学校的connection好到能常常有info session，coffee chat之类的network活动，但是也达不到guaranteed interviews ><

另外吐槽一下ms taxation的项目普遍都比较小，但是还是要和msa一起竞争 T_T

cheesechan

seventeennorth 发表于 2015-11-5 17:39
“学校的connection更胜于地理位置和个人努力”
能做到的目前也只有vandy和wfu了吧。更多耳熟能详的top会 ...

能做到這個的先決條件是, 項目的size要足夠地細.
Department connection的數目有限, 能夠有效地推薦的學生也有限.

不過size一細, 學系就很難賺大錢, 學生也很難申.
這樣的selectivity就保證了學生的水平, 也從而保證了學生的出路.

當然, 這樣的碩士是不會多的 - 因為這根本是和學校的資源作對的.....

Serena0710

412672030 发表于 2015-11-5 10:12
作为aicpa四门全过的过来人，我表示几乎无用，不是目标院校，没有networking，想凭借通过aicpa拿面试，很 ...

个人认为cpa全过还是有用的。一定程度上。我在ny，很多事务所面试必问的问题是，你考CPA了吗？没有的话准备什么时候考。不是雪中送炭。但一定可以锦上添花。在我苦投工作两个月未果的情况下，正是我已经过的三门cpa让我获得了我推荐人的认可，于是有了现在的工作。非常的建议大家，还没工作的时候，尽量考。

Serena0710

seventeennorth 发表于 2015-11-5 08:57
想请教一下在Baruch和pace的ms taxation之间如何选择。。。＝ ＝谢谢前辈。。。 ...

当然必须一定是Baruch。校友众多，本身教学也不错，我同事就有很多Baruch毕业的。而且有在想去念在职ms的同时果断放弃NYU的硕士（不是会计专业）去念Baruch的在职ms taxation。如果你真的想毕业找工作，还是Baruch吧，好好的network，多找实习。

seventeennorth

Serena0710 发表于 2015-11-5 20:57
当然必须一定是Baruch。校友众多，本身教学也不错，我同事就有很多Baruch毕业的。而且有在想去念在职ms的 ...

谢谢你的分享。我有点顾虑是Baruch的性价比很大程度上是由它的学费决定的，这样就吸引了大批优秀的人（在cd上炒得尤其火），peer的水平普遍很高很aggressive。另外Pace各方面也都还不错，跟Baruch的差距真的有那么大吗。我不知道Pace高出来的学费部分能不能换来小一点的peer pressure和竞争。如果Baruch真的领先Pace很多，我会选择回到Baruch的，谢谢你果断的建议 : )

albertchan

搬个板凳凑热闹

Meredith1992

shuode很好啊 感谢分享 码

吃货喵22

并不是所有的supply chain属于STEM，我有同学本科学supply chain，但opt还是只有一年。具体还是得看program的性质吧