Ask Jason@沃顿 (my essays inside!) Free essay advice again~

cannedpineapple

Yes. Actually most of it was quite obvious to me But then... they didn't need to convince me of the merits of this to begin with, so I'm probably not a good gauge of whether this is a good book.

cannedpineapple

Some find practice easier, some find thinking easier. But yes, both are essential.

cannedpineapple

I had the following debate with windboy in another thread, here. http://forum.chasedream.com/North_American_MBA/thread-432500-3-1.html
-------
him: "it is not wise to draw conclusions purely on the basis of your personal experiences/stories, etc. you will need to look at the mba population as a whole and do some statistical analysis to draw any meanful conclusion, rather than any other methods else. of course, the data are really hard to come by.

anyway, i think it makes sense that mba program, as a whole, will NOT be a loser's game, if you look at the supply and demand of mbas-to-be, if we assume that people are avearage rational investors. therefore, it is really simple to know the answer, even without using any sophisticated statisitcal analysis..."
-------
me: "Sure. Sometimes you need to be able to draw the right conclusions after making assumptions- there, statistical analyses helps. But you always need to understand what the right assumptions are. What makes you think that 'people', and particularly 'the mba population', are average rational investors?

Besides, I will never forget what Steven Levitt told us in class one fine day in Chicago. What matters TO YOU is not the 'average' investor, but the 'marginal' investor. Data collection not withstanding, looking at others can sometimes be the completely wrong gauge of what you should be thinking about. I think even the most traditional economist will disagree that the following chain of logic (which is what you are suggesting) is right: 'people are average rational investors' -> 'i am a person' -> 'therefore i MUST be an average rational investor, because I must be the average'.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's wrong to look at others. In many cases, people should do more looking at others. Unfortunately when it comes to business school, however, my experience is that most people do too much looking at others, and do not do enough looking at themselves. Maybe you are the opposite- which still supports my conclusion that everyone should and must decide for themselves."
---------
him: "i am now really surprised that you were trained in chicago, as your comments sound more like typical wharton grads i have come across, quite a few..than from chicago, where Lucas is the god father for rationalism/expectation...

steve is very smart/renowned micro-economist and i won't argue sth abt some basic stuff from econ101. anyone with decent training in statistics/econometrics will understand my previous comments, which of course involves nothing technicality, which i didn't bother to include. my comments before were more of a methodolgy suggestion, rather going into details of explaining how to set up your regression equations and calibration methods with MCMC or gmm (check it out on Hansen's page if gmm doesn't ring a bell or google gibbs sampling algorithm if you don't understand MCMC.)

i made my comments before as some of the comments on this thread were becoming too philosophical, with too good rethorics to have much practical relevance.. anyway, won't waste too much time as still lots of work to do today even it is saturday, sign...

the bottom line of my suggestion: mba from a top school is sth will highly likely to change your life/career. so don't give it up if you have an offer. it is like a simple trading rule: you will have higher probability of being up while the downside is limited. The risk/return profile of an mba is very good."

---------






I would like to comment (or more accurately, vent). We obviously have different opinions. Fine. No problem. What I find difficult to accept is being challenged that "I was trained in Chicago", especially when someone doesn't know me, and sends off replies rapidly because they "don't want to waste too much time because they have lots of work to do, even on a Saturday sigh". Guess what- the world doesn't revolve around you.

I too have work to do. I too treasure my time. I volunteer it- I give it- because I respect the opinions and dreams of others here, and try to help you along the way. I will never make a comment like "I am only saying this quickly" because I understand that every comment I make will be scrutinised. And so I am careful with my words. After all, these are all your dreams we're talking about. I want to respect you, and the best way to do that is to consider carefully your comments, and respond appropriately.

That aside, I also do not appreciate the personal attacks on whether I deserve to be at Wharton, Chicago, or anywhere else. If you read this, Windboy: you may be smarter than me, particularly when it comes to Statistics. But I do not think that that gives you the right to pretend to know me, judge me, and thereafter criticise me, based on a couple of comments that I've made.

It's hurtful when things like that happen. But maybe I'm just too sensitive. Perhaps a better person than I would not have been affected.

Jason

cannedpineapple

Thanks Dan. It is good to be appreciated, particularly when it comes from the CDers that spend their own also valuable time to carefully read and reflect.

What I can't stand most is when someone makes snap 5 minute judgments, because they think their own time is too valuable to spend more time reflecting (which is fine- if your time is so valuable, go do something else, and just don't post), yet they also have such a self-centered view of themselves that they think that everyone should spend careful time reflecting and reading their own 5 minute posts. And when we find something to disagree about.. "oh, I only spent 5 minutes on this, sigh I am so busy, you can't blame me, if I spent more time I will be entirely correct because obviously I am smarter than you and I cannot ever get this wrong."

Anyway, this is just venting. I'm only human, I get pissed too Again, really glad to know you appreciate my efforts. It's comments like these that make me feel that giving my time on CD is worth the effort.

Handling negative attacks is a must-have trait, agreed: but if I had ignored this, then this wouldn't have been very different from windboy's "oh I'm going to ignore you because you're not worth my time". Windboy: I think that you are worth my time. You are obviously very smart, and very good at statistics and economics... But there are other areas in which I believe you have gone too far. Perhaps, just as I still have much to learn about stats and economics, perhaps you too have some things that you could still learn about.

Jason

cannedpineapple

A reminder to would-be applicants... Come and read my other thread on essay feedback!

http://forum.chasedream.com/North_American_MBA/thread-432149-1-2.html


Jason

cannedpineapple

One thing I find when many students write "why abc school", is that they simply don't give good reasons. They simply give a reason that could be any school. For instance, "many great alumni"- which school doesn't have this? Or, for instance, "international programmes". Again, every school has this.

Instead, one good approach is to pretend you are preparing a powerpoint slide for your boss: "why ABC school", and you need to create a graph showing the differences between the schools. Does it make sense to create a graph showing # of alumni? No. Does it make sense to create a graph showing "internationality of programme?" Again no. So what DOES make sense, that can be quantified between different schools?

Things like: "# of students". Some schools (eg. Wharton, HBS) are big. Some (eg. Stanford) are small. Things like: "location". These are things that it is clear that one school cannot be the same as all other schools in.

Put another way, you should not think about what the school has. Instead, think about the factors that the school is GIVING UP. So if Wharton has 800 students, we can't have 300 students. You just can't have both. A bigger school can have more resources and a more vibrant life, but GIVES UP a close-knit environment and a more family-like feeling. Similarly, a school can't be both in New York (eg. Columbia) and Boston (eg. MIT) at once. By being in New York, Columbia students might be GIVING UP the tranquility of Boston. Another example: by being completely case-driven, HBS is GIVING UP the benefits of a straightforward lecture, which might indeed better suit certain subjects/ certain topics/ certain students.

In contrast, a school can have both international and non-international programmes. Adding one doesn't subtract from another. So any school can add as much as they want. A school can also add as many clubs as it want (hence, an applicant writing "I will join xyz club" is not a good reason, since any other school could easily just set up that club). Similarly, classes. A school can always hire a new professor to teach a specific class. So "I like abc class" is not a good reason.

A student's task is to think about where a school has to make trade-offs and compromises, and understand whether the particular trade-offs the school has made.. are in their favour. If no trade-offs have to be made, then the school can always add these things in. Schools do not differentiate themselves by adding things that any other school could easily add.


So think not about what YOU like about the school. But think about what the school likes about itself. Think about where it has had to make 'sacrifices' because it can't be two things at once. Those are the reasons that make good "why"s.

PS: this is not different from what I was talking about earlier. Just as you differentiate yourself through your weaknesses, so too do schools.

cannedpineapple

Thanks guys

BTW, when I applied to Wharton, I did not know- and so did not speak to- a single Wharton-connected student or alumni. Instead I took everything I needed from the website, using the logic that I've mentioned above.

PS, the fact that there is logic involved in this should give you a hint as to why schools ask this. They don't ask it for nothing. They ask it because they want to see how you think, how you make decisions. What better way than to ask you to explain this decision, that you've probably spent a lot of time thinking about?

PPS, I hope I'm beginning to show that there is MUCH MUCH more to the essays. These are infinitely more important for the school to judge who you are, than factors like 'gmat, work experience', and so on. Many factors can affect one's gmat and work- not least of all, luck. But by forcing you to show who you are in the way you choose to write the essays, schools learn a lot more about you than most applicants realise.

Jason

cannedpineapple

Someone asked why some students may get into some schools but not others. "每年都有进了A家不进B家的牛人，是不是每个学校偏好的criteria还不一样呢？"

I said this:

"Of course. That's why fit is important. But also some people simply 'screw up' their essays or interviews for different schools. Which, BTW, should tell you that it makes no sense to say that 'xyz school is the best'. Students there may simply have been lucky.

Anyway, the admission criteria for Wharton is clear. How to get there is perhaps less so.

http://www.accepted.com/chat/Transcripts/2009/mba08262009_wharton.aspx

"a good fit for Wharton would be as follows: We look for people who are intellectually curious, who ask "why" a lot, who want to make a positive change, who like to work with other people, who like tackling complex difficult problems, who see the current economic "crisis" as an opportunity, who wants to be "in the game" as opposed to "watching the game," who will make Wharton and their classmates better, and who ultimately will make the world better."

source: JJ culter.

Since one of the most difficult problems anyone can deal with is to be honest to yourself (eg. Interviewer: "why do you want banking?" You: "I want banking because..." Interviewer: watch your body language to see if you're bullshitting), that's why they ask these questions.

There are literally a million ways to try to see if someone has this "Wharton mindset". Look at your leadership style. Look at the way you carry yourself in the interview. Look at the way you answer questions, and whether I think you're being evasive or honest. See if you're merely confident, or instead cocky and arrogant. And so on.

Don't forget that a lot of communication is non-verbal. You may have a 'perfect answer', but it is my experience that a lot of people with 'perfect answers' (including 'perfect essays' or 'perfect interview qns') get dinged, because those answers were 'perfectly crafted' for them by alumni, friends, consultants. When they say it, they simply lack the honesty and passion to make those answers genuine.

Why do I bring this in? Well, for a question like this, it is just as important to think about "how you're saying something", and what that says about you. And well, unless you're really a fantastic speaker who can convince the adcom (who have interviewed thousands) that your 'perfect answer' is genuine.... Otherwise, go for a true answer. What is your true weakness? Perhaps you're too lazy sometimes? Perhaps you like to 'watch the game' rather than 'be in the game' (despite what Cutler says)?

The point is, the fact that you can recognise this... gives you a chance to start improving on it. And that's what they want to see."

Original thread here: http://forum.chasedream.com/North_American_MBA/thread-438358-1-1.html

cannedpineapple

We do not have a pool. Your chances as a 'mainland Chinese student' applying to Wharton is the same as any other student applying to Wharton, regardless of which round.

That being said, R3 is the toughest round- for everyone. While we will always have slots in R3 for qualified applicants, we will have far fewer slots in R3. There is absolutely no reason why one of those slots couldn't go to you, though. The only certain thing is this: if you don't try, you definitely don't get in.

If you can't apply next year, then I would apply for R3 this year.

cannedpineapple

Up