杨鹏难句中的一句错误

2love2live · 发表于 2004-1-26 21:04:00

A desire to throw over reality a light that never was might give away abruptly to the desire on the part of what we might consider a novelist-scientist to record exactly and concretely the structure and texture of a flower.

原解释：
（这是一种）照亮现实的欲望，此欲望从来就不会唐突地取代后面的那种欲望，后者是我们可以将其部分的理解为一个兼任小说家和科学家的人想要去准确并具体的记录下一朵花的结构和纹理的那种意义上的欲望。

可我觉得正好相反：
a light that never was 中的 that never was 是light 的定语，而并非原解释的：
“第二个修饰成分中又来了一个倒装，由于作者为了强调never,所以将其提前，引发了定语从句中的倒装：正常语序应该是that might never be given away，倒装后系动词was被提前，given因为在情态动词might之后所以变成了原型give。A give way to B，是A让位于B，而A be given way to B，　则是A取代B。on the part of 之后的部分修饰后面的desire，what引导的从句现场阅读时可以看成一个名词。What从句中的不定式to record exactly and concretely the structure and texture of a flower中又有一个避免头重脚轻的倒装，正常语序应该是to record the structure and texture of a flower exactly and concretely。“

所以原句的意思正好相反，应该是：A desire 很有可能 give away to 另一个 desire.

请指点。

pippi · 发表于 2004-1-30 00:14:00

个人认为：同意楼主的观点。。

原解释表示that引导的定从修饰的是A desire ，如此则只有一个名词A desire （被一个INF、一个定从修饰），而不是一个句子了

大家讨论~

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rachalym · 发表于 2004-1-30 16:55:00

我认为两种理解从语法角度都是说得通的。按照原解释，该句是省略句(This is) a desire...
不过从句意上来说我觉得还是原解释更合理些。可能放在文章中，结合上下文更容易判断。

katezhang · 发表于 2004-1-31 01:27:00

A desire to throw over reality a light 从原文来看，指一种超越现实的愿望，也就是说一种从现象中发现本质的愿望，这是一种非常高级的愿望！

record exactly and concretely the structure and texture of a flower，很清楚，这是一种正确无误地反映现象的愿望，和上面的相比应该算是低级的愿望！

我认为原文的作者想说的是：一种高级的愿望不可能唐突的被一种低级的愿望所取代。

2love2live · 发表于 2004-1-31 22:48:00

以下是引用rachalym在2004-1-30 16:55:00的发言：
我认为两种理解从语法角度都是说得通的。按照原解释，该句是省略句(This is) a desire...
不过从句意上来说我觉得还是原解释更合理些。可能放在文章中，结合上下文更容易判断。

you are right - and I tried and found the original article, and quoted as the following"

"
In his novels these various impulses were ?sacrificed to each other inevitably and often.?
inevitably, because Hardy did not care in the
(25) way that novelists such as Flaubert or James?cared, and therefore took path of least resistance. Thus, one impulse often surrendered?to a fresher one and, unfortunately, instead of exacting a compromise, simply disappeared. ?
(30) A desire to throw over reality a light that never?was might give way abruptly to the desire on the part of what we might consider a novelist-scientist to record exactly and concretely the?structure and texture of a flower ............

"

I think YangPeng did make way too big a fuss over this one - by saying in his book the difficulty level of this sentence was "登峰造极", and by introducing the fabricated
"anastrophe" where he explained: a light that never was might give way = a light that never might have given away.....

tianwan · 发表于 2004-2-1 21:16:00

Following is the brick that I throw out to attract a jade:
(note: English and Chinese interpretation from<金山词霸>和<牛津现代高级英汉双解词典>)

Maybe Yangpeng’s explanation of the ellipsis and the inversion is wrong!!!!!!
“A desire to throw over reality a light that never was might give away abruptly to the desire on the part of what we might consider a novelist-scientist to record exactly and concretely the structure and texture of a flower.”

1.    This is a complete sentence, ‘A desire … might give way to the desire…’, ‘might give way abruptly to’  is the predicate part.
2.    ‘throw over reality a light’ is a variant of ‘throw on reality a light’, i.e. ‘throw a light on reality’; ‘that never was’ modify ‘a light’.
3.    ‘A give way to B’ is a idiomatic phrase, the active form can only be ‘ B be given way to by A’, but this active form is clumsy. ‘B be given way to A’ is wrong, the 'by' must not be omitted, so  ‘ never was might give way to’ is not one integrated part.

4.    Interpretation:
4.1  ‘a light that never was’ means ‘a new light’;
here ‘be’ is a vi, means ‘exist’ or ‘occur’;
‘light’ means ’Something that provides information or clarification, knowledge or information that helps understanding, fact or discovery that explains’.
‘throw over reality a light that never was’ = ‘ throw a new light on reality’:解释现实
4.2  ‘on the part of’ means ‘proceeding from, done by, Regarding or with respect to the one specified’, 在…来说，在…方面，就…而言关于，或就某一特定的人而言
4.3 complete sentence:一个解释现实的愿望可能让位于一个兼任小说家和科学家的人要准确并具体地记录下一朵花的结构和纹理的愿望。

It took me 2 hours to get this conclusion. I think only this explanation makes this sentence follow the idea from the preceding sentence and avoids grammatical and syntactic fault. Please refer to the original article excerpted by ‘2love2live’ on upper floor.

Thanks for attention, may some NN point out the mistakes and throw a new light on this sentence?

tianwan · 发表于 2004-2-1 21:19:00

一个解释现实的愿望可能突然让位于一个兼任小说家和科学家的人要准确并具体地记录下一朵花的结构和纹理的愿望。

2love2live · 发表于 2004-2-3 11:50:00

以下是引用tianwan在2004-2-1 21:16:00的发言：
It took me 2 hours to get this conclusion

thanks

fater · 发表于 2004-2-17 13:40:00

我查了LONGMAN DICTIONARY 没有发现 give away to 有让位的意思，只有give way to 的解释为“to be placed by something else". 我发现句子中使用的是give away to ,而大家解释的都是give way to, 是否是杨鹏错了。

vincent0330 · 发表于 2004-2-20 09:29:00

但我想杨鹏的意思是下面的这个句子:

(This is) a desire {that might never be given away abruptly to the desire on the part of what we might consider a novelist-scientist to record the structure and texture of a flower exactly and concretely} [to throw a light over reality.]

主句部份是 (This is) a desire to throw a light over reality.

问题在于有一个超长的定语从句来形容这个desire, 且避免不定式的修饰歧意所以才把这定语从句后置了, 同样的情形可以见杨鹏难句的第一个句子. 至于by的解释, 我的看法是by可以被省略, 譬如 our house was built in 1980.像在这边by就可以省略, 文法书(Understanding and Using English.p211 )中提到 the by-phrase is included only if it is important to know who perform an action.

PS:我们好像变成在讨论文法了...哈哈

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-2-20 9:34:43编辑过]

杨鹏难句中的一句错误

杨鹏难句中的一句错误

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