Chinese people drag Ivey down?

sean1255

Ok, I posted several questions about Ivey. Some say it is a great school, the ranking going down is simply because the job market. Well, that cannot be true, because if so, then other schools should feel the pressure too. Other says because Ivey is a GM school, so it is more likely to be impacted by bad job market. Cannot agree again. Because other GM schools, like Tuck, did pretty well during recent tough years, so why only Ivey was kicked?

Another interesting view is that Ivey admitted too many Chinese people in recent years, with poor communication skills. Therefore, they could not find jobs when they graduated. Well, that is strange, because Ivey has very strong presence in Asia and China, why cannot these Chinese guys with poor English skills go back to China and find jobs?

Actually I'd like to go back home to Shanghai, and land a job there if I can go to Ivey and graduate. There are obviously much more opportunities back there than in Canada. So really confused, and donot know if should go to Ivey or not.

One other thing, Ivey doesnot have job replacement data on its web site, especially salary and replacement percentage. So guess they really donot have good news.

Thanks for your input and help.

braveMBA

Sean1225,

I don't think your attitude is fair or objective.  I am guessing maybe there are something wrong between you and Ivey. If it does, I am sorry to hear that.

You are a sort of right. On average, Chinese students' English Skill is not as good as some from many other second-language countries at Ivey.But, this is not a problem just of Ivey Chinese students. I have been living in NA for some time. The language issue is the biggest barrier for most of Chinese people.  Consider, even Chinese students from TOP 10, they still have language issues.

Ranking. I can not disagree with you. This is a game of Ranking. Ivey did a bad job in the past few years. Any excuse from Ivey is bullshit because we are in this game.  However, personally, do you think a higher ranking will definitely help you find a good job? I doubt it. On average, if you want to get a job in Canada with a MBA degree, Ivey is the best choice because of its huge alumni and teaching method. Again, it also doesn't definitely happen on you.  Individual efforts and backgrounds will determine your job opportunity.  Ranking is NOT the King. King is yourself!

Job. As I know, most of ivey 2004 go back to China and almost all ofthem find decent jobs within 3 months upon graduation.  You are right again. Why not go back China? Many of us plan to do so. Why not? Unfortunately, some employment numbers of Chinese students are not being collected by career management of Ivey. I think this is the problem of management, not reflecting graduates of Chinese students who went back China. BTW, Ivey is the only BS of NA which has Career development office in China(Shanghai). It has run  for two years and becomes more and more helpful. Once again, if you want to heavily rely on school's posting to get a job, you may be in trouble. Your own networking is always KING!

Alumni. Ivey has biggest alumni networking both in Canada and in China.This will be your future potential value. More importantly, Chinese stduents at Ivey are very close. This would be our best value gained from the two years study.  Quality of Chinese students at Ivey are generally excellent ( This is my personal opinion). MBA program is 70% about people relationship. If you get people, you get 70% of your ROI.

I still think you are not wrong. However, as an insider, I would like to evaluate a MBA program by what I get from this experience rather than some numbers. They are nuts to me. A simple example is, if you get abetter job than a guy graduated from HBS, can you say Ivey is better than HBS. The answer is simple and quick, NO.

Anyway, I am very open to discuss with you guys about Ivey and MBA program as well. This is a one-way ticket. We should be careful.

Again, good luck to you, my friend, Sean1225.  Welcome to Ivey. Welcome to Ivey Chinese community.

[此贴子已经被作者于2005-3-18 5:50:50编辑过]

hpp920

braveMBA: very thoughtful points. every time I read your post, I can feel the culture of IVEY, and I see a great B-school. I respect it.

CEIBS_MBA2005

why cannot these Chinese guys with poor English skills go back to China and find jobs

yes, I agree

sean1255

Well, first thanks for your input as an insider.

Personally, I donot have anything against Ivey. The reason why I posted questions is that I am now applying for MBA programs, and cannot decide whether I shall apply for Ivey or not. Sure, many good comments about Ivey, but there are many bad ones too.

A higher ranking school doesnot guarantee every graduate a decent job, but on average, higher ranking school has more decent job postings,and the jobs are more decent too. As a big investment, I have to evaluate the gain, and job replacement percentage and starting salary are key evaluations. Most of top schools post all details about their graduates job replacement, proudly, but Ivey is an exception.

Another issue, seems that you are very confident that you can find a decent job by your own networking. Well, if that is the case, then congraduations. But for me, I think it is really tough to land a good job by myself. And in most cases, as immigrants, we donot have huge network in Canada. In addition, because we have left China for a while, we lose some connections there too.

For me, going to top b-school is because I want a better job with higher pay, simple. And of course, I hope the school can give me as much help as possible. Believe me, as a Chinese, trying to find a job by yourself in Canada is not realistic, the chance is slim. I have been in Canada for 7 years, studied in college and worked here for 3 years. Turst me, you have to rely on the school to get you in.

And that is why top schools charge much much more, and why top schools have many decent jobs? not sure, guess nobody knows why. But their rankings are critical, I guess.

Ivey is the best in Canada, but when we choose b-schools, shall we think outside the bun? Besides, if the best school in Canada cannot get you a good job, then why is it the best?

If somebody tells me that he or she chooses to spend 2 years and hundreds of dollars to get a MBA, only because he or she wants to know people or get the experience, and then himself or herself can do the rest by his or her own, I trully donot believe it.

Again, thanks for your input, and your future comments will be highly appreciated.

juliaPL

I believe that there is another factor. Ivey is located in London, not in Toronto. But it is good for network, all the students come to London because of Ivey. They not only participate the class together, but also share the spare time together. If you are a landed immigrant and you want to persist on living here, you really do not have many choices. Just try to find the school that suits you best. Nobody can make the judgement for you, follow your heart and sow the seeds of friendship from now on.

dashasha

以下是引用sean1255在2005-3-19 2:17:00的发言：

Another issue, seems that you are very confident that you can find a decent job by your own networking. Well, if that is the case, then congraduations. But for me, I think it is really tough to land a good job by myself. And in most cases, as immigrants, we donot have huge network in Canada. In addition, because we have left China for a while, we lose some connections there too.

For me, going to top b-school is because I want a better job with higher pay, simple. And of course, I hope the school can give me as much help as possible. Believe me, as a Chinese, trying to find a job by yourself in Canada is not realistic, the chance is slim. I have been in Canada for 7 years, studied in college and worked here for 3 years. Turst me, you have to rely on the school to get you in.

这是加拿大的情况吗?好像美国不是这样的.找工作手段多多,通过学校只是其中一种途径而已.不是对你的总的观点置疑,是对加拿大的情况不太了解.

dinosaure

Actually,you can get very detail employee information by contacting Ivey career management office.And I guess you can get it on the school's website,just trying to search it.

vagabond

Dear BraveMBA: To be honest, you need to do you utmost to sharpen your English-writing skills. Hope it will not represent the average capability of all Chinese students at Ivey.

braveMBA

Vagabond,

Thanks for your comments.  For my English skill, it is notnecessary to discuss here as long as you can understand. That's enough.We are not playing with words or numbers here. We are dealing withpeople. I hope I can contribute my ideas to XDJM at CD. That's it.

Anyway, thanks. BTW, my English skill, especially " English-writing skills", can not represent "the average capability of all Chinese students at Ivey.". But, the sharing and supportive spirit among us is always the same.

Good luck to your journey of MBA study.

Brave.