A Guide to Sales & Trading, Introduction from insider

InTheLoop

Hello every one, this is an information session sponsored by CFE program. Certificate in Financial Engineering(CFE)Examination, a Quantitative Finance certificate examination for global banking and finance professionals and students of engineering, science and Management Studies who want to make a career in the field of finance and banking in a changing world.
CFE Exam shall have two parts:
CFE Level 1
CFE Level 2
CFE is applications oriented Quantitative Finance Examination which focuses on both the knowledge of quant finance and the development of hands-on quantitative modeling skills within the discipline of quantitative finance. The CFE Exam, at both levels, is all about applying the theories of finance and financial economics, applied mathematics, statistics, physics and computer science to solving problems in the areas such as the valuation and risk analysis of financial derivatives, derivatives trading, portfolio management and asset allocation models for investments, valuation of insurance liabilities, algorithmic trading of financial securities and market and credit risk management.

Back to the main topic, today we have two guests talk about Sales and Trading in Bulge Bracket firm, A is a sales person in Shanghai
and B is a trader in Hongkong. C is our anchor today.
Today's section contains the following:
1 Introduction
2 What we de
3 About Education
4 What Skills Are We Looking For
5 Life Style At Desk

InTheLoop

C: We are very lucky to have you two here, as the beginning, please introduce yourself first.
A: Hi, I am a sales in a Global Markets trading room in Shanghai. My job is to sale derivatives, FX, structured solution and other assets or solution to corporate or asset management firms. I used to have internship with DB in FX trading and Citadel in Option Market Making. I graduated from University of Illinois and have a bachelor degree in a local school in Shanghai. B is my close friend since elementary school
B: Hi guys, I work on FX trading desk in Hongkong. Like most traders in APAC, I both handle client order and proprietary account. I am a Cantonese and was a sales intern with SG CIB in Hongkong and during my study in Cambridge, I working with FX exotic option desk with Barclays. And after I finished my internship, I join my current company and return to Hongkong.

InTheLoop

C: I know that sell side Sales and Trading are very good jobs for the beginners. Would you please tell us about your job, what are you doing in a day time?
A: Sales person has a broad understanding of the market. People here are expected to know both client’s financial position and market’s condition. Typically, my responsibility falls into two catalogs: Flow based and Deal based. Flow based business is the business to fulfill client’s daily or routine needs. For example, Client calls for a FX transaction; you call the trader to get a price, negotiate with client with a spread and finish the deal. For Deal based business, it can be further decomposed into hedging and investment: Client import lots of iron ores, hedge with Collar, Swap or option; Client has extra money in hand, or client is an asset management firm looking for yield enhancement. You need to find the correct product or structured solutions: Credit linked notes, double no touch FX option, CDOs...Some time, we also have projected finance or synthetic funding, working closely with IBD…In general, I would say it involved petty much every thing in the market.
B: Compare to sales, trader has a much easy target: P&L but much sophisticated methods. For most desks, we have 3 main businesses: Client flow, proprietary trading and market making. Client flow is to quote a price and buy the inventory for the client if needed. But if we can not unwind the position 100 percent, we need Delta hedge and other method to fillfull the needs. Proprietary trading requires us to take position. You can bet on economic events, arbitrage, swing trading, trend following, lock on abnormal Cost of Carry….Market making requires trader to have good understanding of market condition and liquidity, maintain a correct bid and ask price in the order books
C: That sounds quite exciting…
A: Well, not really, hard to imaging a junior guy can be assigned a big juicy deal. We start from the bottom: Daily FX dealing, helping with PPT for hedging deal, Excel with scenario analysis…
B: Same, here, you need to prove yourself a lot to get authorization for maintain order book and much much much prove for having your own account

InTheLoop

C: I think people here are very interesting in the education requires for those jobs. Certainly, the company cannot interview everyone who submits their application.
A: Job hunting is like…well a random distribution, no education can guarantee you an offer. Our opinion is also limited to what we know and what we see. I believe there is a good confident level, but there are always outliers. Most traders in my company in APAC are really top guys, such as Berklee MFE, CMU MSCF and Wharton MBA. For sales, in which soft skills plays more, it is not that demanding. I know people from LSE, Warwick from UK. This year, I heard a Yale girl, UCLA (or Michigan? I can’t remember clearly) boy and a Washington university guy joined us. In my opinion, I think those US top 30 schools’ grads with relative experience will have high odds
B: just like A said, trader is not an easy job when you consider thousands of candidates each year. My company seems to be very keen on ivies, we have a Columbia party every weekend. Maybe because I am working in Hongkong, Cambridge
also has a lot of alumnus here. I think those talent people with a top 15 schools’ degree in relative field will be invited an interview.
C: Do you have an system in the application system that automatically filter out applicants who are not from those, for example, top 15 schools set in you company?
B: To be honest, I don’t know. My opinion is based on what I saw and heard around my desk. With a slightly weaker degree, you may also have a chance…But I would say people here are expecting a very prestige academic background. .
A: But you can not rule out people’s initiative. My school can only be barely regarded as top 30 and I at least have an interview opportunity. I also know some guy who is a SUNY phd and worked in our headquarter in NYC as a quant
B: I can’t say you are wrong; I would put and bet high confident level on that
A: Yes, agree, that tail distribution is very limited and rare
C: I still want to know, what about those guys with a weaker degree, but they are quite devoted into Sales and Trading and they may have the correct skills or mindset for this position
A: If your academic background is weaker than ideal candidate, don’t be upset, because you do not have time to be upset. You need to find a relative internship, pass CFA, CFE, FRM and learn a lot of the business you are working. If they invited you to an interview, you have chances to impress the interviewer with your passion and knowledge. Remember, you have to impress your manager a lot to make up for your weaker degree
C: How about risk position?
B: Risk maybe the only department here with increase in HC. Too many regulations these days…
A: Those people are very good in numerical skills. But even with an increase in needs, it is still very difficult, Front Office Quants are in deleveraging and they compete with Middle Office Risk quant. As far as I know, most risk guys have really good academic background from really top universities
B: Most of them are PHDs with Math degree

InTheLoop

C: what kind of skills or persons, I mean others besides the academic background are they expecting?
A: Well, we are not HRs. Just a little sharing about my idea, for sales person, you need to know Black Scholes and Delta, but not Volga and Vanna; you need to know how to price an IRS, but not whether and how to use Eurodollar future, FRA or calling Treasury to hedge
B: Math and quick reaction is essential. People here has a very calm, careful mind but you need to be very fast. People may ask how someone can do business both fast and accurate, unfortunately, this is the life here. Understanding of the market and judgment are also very important

InTheLoop

C: Again, thank you for your time. Here is the last part, please share us with your life style in the trading desk and working environment with us
A: To be honest, people here is a little…arrogant. But I believe this is a place we united together as a real team. People here are very close with each other. there are less political games here, everyone fights for the revenue. We are very “direct” persons…
B: In fact, traders are more “direct”, I hear F word everyday. Sometime, boys here get “smashed” by their boss. But don’t worry, if you correct your mistake in time, no one will remember what is what thereafter
A: Boss will not hate you for a mistake for more than 3 days as long as you fixed it. The market changes every second and we have to change too. There is a significant different between us and IBD guys: We love coupes such as Porches, Mercedes SLK or BMW, people in IBD prefers luxury cars like Bentley, Mercedes S600 or Audi. That maybe the implication of different life style
B: One last thing to add, I have 6 monitors and no plant can live here for more than one month. Be healthy and take care of yourself.
C: Thank you all for your advice and sharing, wish you good luck for your future career

hangli2

"I have 6 monitors and no plant can live here for more than one month."

wtf

zhangyunkai5

There are really few information about the CFE program...

lzlsnake

弱背景仰望...

xiqiong

长见识了！！！