Corporate MBA Recruiting项目 - JnJ, Eli Lilly, Dupont, Danaher, Medtronics

pursueMBA2010

希望有超过招聘内容的一些实质信息分享。比如三年后这些人中的大部分在什么位置。
大部分的program,进去以后就和公司体制融为一体，program结束以后找一个位置就各安天命。是否有上升途径全评各人networking能力。MBA的价值下降得很快。泯然众人矣！所谓program不过是公司官僚体制下HR的一个例行任务。
只有少数才真正把你当回事培养。待遇和事业在几年后仍然有上升空间。

-- by 会员 51xt (2011/7/8 16:11:03)

+1，很多项目最后都这样，不管是大学毕业还是mba毕业

-- by 会员 adaadaadalee (2011/7/8 20:46:39)

I don't think any MBA graduate can share this information with you. For one thing, most of them don't want; for the other, they are not able to do.

tianya111

作为一个从上述某家公司的leadership program出来的pre-MBA，想跟大家分享的是，不管你进到了哪家公司，2年后你的位置在哪儿主要取决于你在roatation中的表现、pre MBA的经验、个人的network和结束program的opening，跟你的学校是哪儿关系不大。至于说到是不是“官僚体制下HR的一个例行任务”，well， 我想说的是，yes or no.

这些leadership program的价值在于，给你打开机会窗，让你跟部门和公司的高层有互动，通过接触不同部门不同的工种去发现自己擅长和喜欢的领域。其实，在任何一家大的外企，最终走多远更多靠的是个人的performance和network，MBA的作用并不大的。

比如，我会很难想象，一个HSW毕业的、完全没有行业经验、只会做些pitch空谈战略的MBA能比那些扎扎实实每年贡献number的leader走得更快更远。但是，相反，如果你有很扎实的行业背景，那么off program后应该会走得比较快。

在industry，MBA更被value的部门是in house BD/M&A/consulting/,investmentarm, business planning, 以及marketing部门。这种工作有consulting和banking的乐趣，pay也不低，工作也不那么辛苦，但是机会往往不多，而且要人也非常挑。听认识的一个猎头曾经说过，一个前BCGerWharton毕业后，宁愿拿consulting打对折的工资去F500的BD部门，但是都不得其门。因为位置太少。

从中国人来说，我觉得off program在总部待一阵回国可能更有价值。对于那些pre MBA没有这些行业或者企业经验的人，这个program则能够让你拥有brand name公司的经验、背景和人脉。以后要转行去做PE或者VC应该比单纯的投行和咨询背景更有优势。

如果是单纯为了pay，那么算好小时工资和年薪的帐再考虑要不要申请。咨询和投行在职业生涯的不同阶段，一样能进我说的那些部门，只不过机会窗未必在那儿。因为位置的确不多。

tianya111

ls，没有人能够回答你的问题，因为没有人能做到亲身去体会不同公司的program，从而给出完整全面的回答。

我所在的program，曾数次被美某著名财经杂志评为“the best leadership program”。公司的说法是人头的培训费用是50万美金。有两次在纽约培训，是CEO亲自从downtown 坐直升飞机过来给大家做presentation。除了课堂培训，我觉得很有收获的是公司各大部门头头脑脑，给大家做的很多讲座。技能的培训都在其次，所谓的CEO perspective倒的确是在潜移默化中发生的。那些他们一路做上来的故事也非常的鲜活和有启发性。roatation的质量有的非常好，有的just so so，也要看你自己是不是够主动，有initiative。我自己做的一个项目是CEO sponsor的，不但要带内部的团队，同时和国家相关部门以及地方政府配合、互动非常多。期间因为工作很忙，甚至两度推后了GMAT考试。但是从中我学到了很多东西。而最终项目的意义和影响也非常不错。有的同事，做的项目也是公司战略级层面的项目。

你应该在corporate做吧，其实可以从自己的公司去了解很多信息的。另外，我觉得你对这些porgram或者大外企的要求有点求全责备了吧。对promote from within的industry来说，MBA其实算不上一根葱。而MBA本来也不是。

花花公子

这些programme几年后的pay会是怎么样，有人能说说吗？不要只关注起薪，那样很没有意义

另外发展空间其实真的重要的多，混的职位高了，pay自然不会少，相反永远徘徊在低层级pay再多也有限。

pursueMBA2010

I don't think internal BD department is so promising because, generally, it is no a core department. This department which doesn't control P&L often looks like very shining but holds weak power inside a company.
Consultants prefer to jump into that department is just because this is the only department that opens door for most consultants.
for example, for a EM in McK, which position is more attractive(generally) to catch: strategy head or BU head? I guess the latter

pursueMBA2010

只是想知道哪家的program
1. rotation效果更好，因为很多rotation就是把你当assistant使，培训跟不上（因为很多在基层），美其名曰 on-job training. 即使在总部有的也未必有很好的培训机制。

2. program结束两年后相对还有比较好的跟踪，保证发展，而不是基本自生自灭。（当然少数人也可以混得很好）

3. 从pay上能够体现你以前的experience的价值，而不是从较低水平起步。例如pre MBA年薪8-9W, 毕业参加这种leadership program是否合适呢，或者哪家的比较合适的呢。

4. 笔试面试这种program的经验。

-- by 会员 51xt (2011/7/8 23:20:34)

You can interview the alumni in that program and look for successful cases.
Basically, if there are several successful cases(the more, the better), it at least means that the program has good structure and offers candidates opportunities. That is fine.

tianya111

I don't think internal BD department is so promising because, generally, it is no a core department. This department which doesn't control P&L often looks like very shining but holds weak power inside a company.
Consultants prefer to jump into that department is just because this is the only department that opens door for most consultants.
for example, for a EM in McK, which position is more attractive(generally) to catch: strategy head or BU head? I guess the latter

-- by 会员 pursueMBA2010 (2011/7/9 0:37:35)

To my knowledge, the internal BD department has very solid exposure opportunity to high level executives. And the job is interesting. Yet it really depends on people as each may have quite different aspirations/pursuits.  
For an EM from McK, the BU head position definitely is more appealing, but I really doubt he/she has prepared enough for this post and whether an industry corporate would offer such a position to a consultant with comparatively less domain expertise or sense. His/her skill sets honed might be ok to a B2C company(FMCG, food, beverage etc ), but for a B2B company, it is totally another story.  
I guess corporate value consulting experience less in China than in US.

dingxiang

不错， 帮顶。
前面的同学说得很好。我感觉美国的公司相对来说还非常重视管理和策略研究（当然执行力是另外一个big question）所以大部分公司都舍得花这钱搞这样的项目，名称和scope不同，另外在公司的重视度也不一样。整个招聘流程也是有的严谨， 有的马虎。

但是, again， 企业界不比IB, consulting，IB 需要能吃苦，consulting需要能吹会卖。企业界他们需要的是实打实的相关工作经验, mba is a plus, not a must，尤其是对于国际学生， 即使进了program， 你的deliverable很多时候并非来自mba所学， 而是其他方面。

pursueMBA2010

I don't think internal BD department is so promising because, generally, it is no a core department. This department which doesn't control P&L often looks like very shining but holds weak power inside a company.
Consultants prefer to jump into that department is just because this is the only department that opens door for most consultants.
for example, for a EM in McK, which position is more attractive(generally) to catch: strategy head or BU head? I guess the latter

-- by 会员 pursueMBA2010 (2011/7/9 0:37:35)

To my knowledge, the internal BD department has very solid exposure opportunity to high level executives. And the job is interesting. Yet it really depends on people as each may have quite different aspirations/pursuits.  
For an EM from McK, the BU head position definitely is more appealing, but I really doubt he/she has prepared enough for this post and whether an industry corporate would offer such a position to a consultant with comparatively less domain expertise or sense. His/her skill sets honed might be ok to a B2C company(FMCG, food, beverage etc ), but for a B2B company, it is totally another story.  
I guess corporate value consulting experience less in China than in US.

-- by 会员 tianya111 (2011/7/9 1:15:39)

In the state, probably yes; but in EU and China, not really.
I witness many ex-consultant(might be not many but a few), who are taking high positions in strategy office currently, are struggling for switching to manage huge P&L. But, agree with you partial, it depends. It varies individual by individual.
All in all, consulting offers a relative guaranteed path; but leadership programs really depend(in many cases, it depends on senior individuals like CEO, HR VP.....etc)

tianya111

I don't think internal BD department is so promising because, generally, it is no a core department. This department which doesn't control P&L often looks like very shining but holds weak power inside a company.
Consultants prefer to jump into that department is just because this is the only department that opens door for most consultants.
for example, for a EM in McK, which position is more attractive(generally) to catch: strategy head or BU head? I guess the latter

-- by 会员 pursueMBA2010 (2011/7/9 0:37:35)

To my knowledge, the internal BD department has very solid exposure opportunity to high level executives. And the job is interesting. Yet it really depends on people as each may have quite different aspirations/pursuits.  
For an EM from McK, the BU head position definitely is more appealing, but I really doubt he/she has prepared enough for this post and whether an industry corporate would offer such a position to a consultant with comparatively less domain expertise or sense. His/her skill sets honed might be ok to a B2C company(FMCG, food, beverage etc ), but for a B2B company, it is totally another story.  
I guess corporate value consulting experience less in China than in US.

-- by 会员 tianya111 (2011/7/9 1:15:39)

In the state, probably yes; but in EU and China, not really.
I witness many ex-consultant(might be not many but a few), who are taking high positions in strategy office currently, are struggling for switching to manage huge P&L. But, agree with you partial, it depends. It varies individual by individual.
All in all, consulting offers a relative guaranteed path; but leadership programs really depend(in many cases, it depends on senior individuals like CEO, HR VP.....etc)

-- by 会员 pursueMBA2010 (2011/7/9 4:27:12)

The reason why many ex-consultants are chasing BU leader positions managing huge P&L is that they probably know, after years of being consultants in "strategy" houses,  what the hardcore of consulting business is. In any F500, a promising upward way is being a BU manager, while in many respects, corporate BD is a good job, especially in terms of  the fun of the work and life-work balance.    


Neither consulting nor leadership program will guarantee anything.    It's up to you in the end. The former guarantees even less. In EU and China especially, most high level leaders moved to their posts by outstanding performances of pushing sales numbers. Will consulting job equip you well in a sales position? It is over-rated too. In many corporate executives' eyes,  a consultant from McK is smart, but do they really value his work much?    In many cases, NO.