再问OG164(大全714)(新增ETS官方回复)

tianwan

168. Today, because of improvements in agricultural technology, the same amount of acreage produces double the apples that it has in 1910.

(B) twice as many apples as it did

(E) a doubling of the apples that it did

E is illogical: since that refers to a doubling, E nonsensically asserts that the doubling occurred in 1910.

又找到一个典型的例子，“a of b，which”或类似的“a of b that" 这种类型ETS就是认为which/that修饰a。看来不用may是符合ETS逻辑的.

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-6-4 14:08:28编辑过]

蓝色泡泡

E) 中的非限定性定语从句，which 从句子结构上来讲的确指向funding. 中心词的判断，首先要看结构，如果是A of B, which ..., 则which 一定修饰B。

其次看整个句子的谓语，亦即在同一语法层次上，谓语和非限定性定语从句必定是由同一对象发出或拥有的两种动作或属性（分别充当主语和先行词）；

再其次才是临近优先的修饰原则，主要适用于先行词不是主语或不在主语位置上的句子。

个人体会，盼斧正。

partly agree

偶认为就近修饰原则还是首要的,这也是很多题目中造成歧义的根源所在(ETS的宠儿)

关键看修饰成分之前的那一位是否有资格成为其修饰对象, 如A of B , in some place 等

这里的B ,palce 就完全可以独立成为被修饰对象, 但是A'B ,  A for B 中的A , B就是从属的修饰词,没有地位被后面的成分修饰了

vincent0330

以下是引用我爱宝宝在2004-6-4 11:43:00的发言：

我稍稍觉得这样大规模讨论效果不是很好，很难透过简单的文字真正明白对方的意图，我不真正明白狗狗，狗狗也不真正明白我。可我也不知道怎样才最有效果。个人看法。

大家请继续~~~

(B) that funding for development of the park, which could be open to the public early next year, be（B）

(E) development funding for the park, which could be open to the public early next year, is to be

呵呵....宝宝...别气馁....一定是我的认知问题啦!!

不过我的疑惑不是单单 A of B 或是 A for B 而已, 看看上面:

(B)是 A for B of C,  which指代C

(E)是 A for C, which指代A

你说(E)中的which语法上可以指代A, 这我没问题, 但(B)真的就很怪吧, 要嘛也指代A, 要不就指代of的中心词B, 可ETS却说指代C

vincent0330

以下是引用tianwan在2004-6-4 14:08:00的发言：

168. Today, because of improvements in agricultural technology, the same amount of acreage produces double the apples that it has in 1910.

(B) twice as many apples as it did

(E) a doubling of the apples that it did

E is illogical: since that refers to a doubling, E nonsensically asserts that the doubling occurred in 1910.

又找到一个典型的例子，“a of b，which”或类似的“a of b that" 这种类型ETS就是认为which/that修饰a。看来不用may是符合ETS逻辑的.

个人意见, 这里(E)是因为后面it 指代the same amount of acreage, did指代produce, 所以that当成宾语, 语法上指向a doubling 或是apples, 但逻辑上只有指向apple

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-6-4 22:32:29编辑过]

vincent0330

以下是引用我爱宝宝在2004-6-4 11:43:00的发言：

86版16、A：which语法上指代51million, 逻辑指代program

我认为重心在这里：体会解释对D的影响，把这个和你帖的原题对比一下，这两个解释矛盾，解决矛盾的方法是在distort前加may与本题解释相一致。

<86OG>16.   The modernization program for the steel mill will cost approximately 51 million dollars, which it is hoped can be completed in the late 1980’s.
(D) The program for modernizing the steel mill, which can, it is hoped, be completed in the late 1980’s and cost approximately 51 million dollars.

Asdie from having an ambiguous which, D contains no independent clause and so cannot stand as a sentence.

先从这题来讲, 对(D)的体会(按OG解释)是which同时逻辑上修饰the program, 语法上修饰the stell mill

164. The commission proposed that funding for the park’s development, which could be open to the public early next year, is obtained through a local bond issue.

(B) that funding for development of the park, which could be open to the public early next year, be

(E) development funding for the park, which could   be open to the public early next year, is to be

OG164:B和E成分不同，再体会体会。B是best!

同样的(B)which逻辑上与语法上同时修饰park;

(E)不同的是, funding为整句的宾语(不同于(B)的主语),  which就只能指代funding

小结一下宝宝要讲的:

86OG&OG164(B)

Subject + for N , which:

which语法上只能指代N

Subject + Verb + Object + for N, which:

which语法上只能指代Object

我稍稍觉得这样大规模讨论效果不是很好，很难透过简单的文字真正明白对方的意图，我不真正明白狗狗，狗狗也不真正明白我。可我也不知道怎样才最有效果。个人看法。大家请继续~~~

呵呵....宝宝你怎么说的跟OG一样深奥......cc.....just kidding

不过太谢谢宝宝这个牛人....就是要大家讨论, 越深入的才能越了解嘛!!像你花了一个小时, 大脑可没停止休习啊!!狗狗认为这也是锻练逻辑的一种思惟模式说......cc

我还是有点不清楚.....这可能性我当初想过, 但是被我排除在外是因为

Subject + Verb + Object + for N, which:

which就一定只能指代object吗??

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-6-4 22:13:32编辑过]

vincent0330

以下是引用蓝色泡泡在2004-6-4 14:49:00的发言：
>

partly agree

偶认为就近修饰原则还是首要的,这也是很多题目中造成歧义的根源所在(ETS的宠儿)

关键看修饰成分之前的那一位是否有资格成为其修饰对象, 如A of B , in some place 等

这里的B ,palce 就完全可以独立成为被修饰对象, 但是A'B ,  A for B 中的A , B就是从属的修饰词,没有地位被后面的成分修饰了

泡泡这样讲有道理, 证实了我上面的问题了.......

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-6-4 23:01:11编辑过]

我爱宝宝

狗狗你真,我已经完全荤菜了~~~~

只看清你最后一句话，我的意思是说

Subject + Verb + Object + for N, which:

which就一定只能指代object吗??

which可以修饰 N,或者Object，这样比较符合ets的解释，它说

At any rate, it is not clear in choices D whether the modernization program or the steel mil is supposed to be completed in the late 1980’s.

与你原题比较，我作出了它少may的假设，only假设~~~

至于b，符合通常的就近修饰名词原则，个人认为不需要深究了。assumption：能用其他语法解释的就解释不能用的就把它当语法解释，嘻嘻，供大家扔鸡蛋。

rt316

35.   In June of 1987, The Bridge of Trinquetaille, Vincent van Gogh’s view of an iron bridge over the Rhone sold for $20.2 million and it was the second highest price ever paid for a painting at auction.

(A) Rhone sold for $20.2 million and it was

(B) Rhone, which sold for $20.2 million, was

(C) Rhone, was sold for $20.2 million,

(D) Rhone was sold for $20.2 million, being（C）

(E) Rhone, sold for $20.2 million, and was

A comma is needed after Rhone in choices A and D to set off the modifying phrase that begins Vincent...; without the comma, the phrase appears to be part of the main clause, and it is thus unclear what noun should govern the verb sold. Furthermore, it in A has no logical referent, and being in D is not idiomatic. Choices B and E produce the illogical statement that the painting was the second highest price. Choice C, the best answer, avoids this problem by using a noun phrase in which price clearly refers to $20.2 million. And by using a comma after Rhone to set off the phrase that modifies The Bridge of Trinquetaille, C makes the painting the subject of was sold.

这题which虽不是考点, 但在此明确指出which指代"Vincent van Gogh’s view "

(A of B, which指代A)
*************************************************************************************以上为引用部分

你划红线的部分没有对which的指代表达暗示，仅仅说明The Bridge of Trinquetaille这个作品was the second highest price是个错误。

rt316

想来想去，XDF的原则可能还管用：

3) 跳跃修饰的判断方法

a. 语法手段：如定语从句可以由主谓一致保持修饰对象的明确。

b. 逻辑手段，由上下文判断。

c. 优先就近修饰，然后跳跃修饰。 以后做题的时候至少可以注意： 1.修饰问题是一个有效问题，不可以一上来就按此原则排除选项。 2.语法判断是第一原则。 3.无法用语法判断的时候，即选项都一样，这时也无所谓用什么逻辑原则了，直接去看其他区别了。

************************************************以上引用的是LES 6/3的帖子

首先，我比较赞成新东方的思考过程。以下的例子在题号前有V的代表正确答案，有X的代表错误答案，之所以这样划分，为了避免误导。

其次，要说明的是以下的部分结论是个人的观点，所以，拜请大家还是要好好思考。

我们从语法手段开始：

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-6-8 3:22:46编辑过]

vincent0330

你划红线的部分没有对which的指代表达暗示，仅仅说明The Bridge of Trinquetaille这个作品was the second highest price是个错误。

我想你误会了....我举的那些例子只是列举which的例子, 不是说这些都有错, 也不是说这些全都是考点.....

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-6-8 3:29:49编辑过]