prep1-3 句子结构

Mayanist

谢谢你们的进一步讨论。13/13a的理解符合直觉：因为这里less than其实不表示比较，所以这种数字加可数名词是作为一个整体看的，例如10 years表示一段时间，20 meters表示一段距离。

AlienX

10 floor has some good points.
But I want to add more:
- in
general, "less than" 不可用在countable的東東上, 可是有exceptions: scientific units
(e.g. second, pound, etc), time, distance, percentage, etc.
-
there are infinite many exceptions in English.  e.g. "10 or fewer
items" vs. "10 or less items" item本身不是scientific units, 也不是time,
distance, percentage, 這裡之所以用less是因為一個非常無奈的原因 -
美國人都習慣...(如果xdjm有機可以注意一下美式的超市, 會有類似的牌"10 or less items" (10 or
少於10個items的排這裡))
P.S. 以上是從Garner's Modern American Usage中搬出來....

[此贴子已经被作者于2009-2-12 2:59:54编辑过]

Mayanist

以下是引用AlienX在2009-2-12 2:44:00的发言：
10 floor has some good points.
But I want to add more:
- in general, "less than" 不可用在countable的東東上, 可是有exceptions: scientific units (e.g. second, pound, etc), time, distance, percentage, mass noun, etc.
- there are infinite many exceptions in English.  e.g. "10 or fewer items" vs. "10 or less items" item本身不是scientific units, 也不是time, distance, percentage, 這裡之所以用less是因為一個非常無奈的原因 - 美國人都習慣...(如果xdjm有機可以注意一下美式的超市, 會有類似的牌"10 or less items" (10 or 少於10個items的排這裡))
P.S. 以上是從Garner's Modern American Usage中搬出來....

DX举的10 or less还是和数字放在一起，一起修饰items的，没有与 less than 10 items 用法不一样，只要没有less than items （造一个）/ less items 这样的用法就不算例外了。

10 or fewer items = 10 (items) or fewer items，fewer items联系紧密；而 10 or less items 中 10 or less 联系紧密 

AlienX

hehe
not really...
will you say, "I have 10 less apples than John has"? or will you say, "I have 10 fewer apples than John has"?

Let's look at more reputable examples (I know I am not that reputable ;-)):
P1#165. Researchers have determined that, because of poaching and increased cultivation in their native habitats, there are fewer than 100 Arabian leopards left in the wild, and that these leopards  are thus many times more rare than China's giant pandas.
P2#185. When drive-ins were at the height of their popularity in the late 1950s, some 4,000 existed in the United States, but today there are fewer than one-quarter as many.

AlienX

even more interesting news about this subject:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7591905.stm

songlovegt

我倒是有个问题，

Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as southern Texas.

 (A) Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

(B) In less than 35 years since releasing African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

(C) In less than the 35 years since African honeybees had been released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

(D) It took less than 35 years from the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, when

(E) It took less than the 35 years after the time that African honeybees were released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, and then

如果 A 前面加 in，是否还正确？
In less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,  their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as southern Texas.
和原句比较呢？是否还表达同样的意思？

songlovegt

感觉有 in 和没有 in 还是很值得研究的。
比如
She graduated last year.
She graduated in last year.

songlovegt

查到了另外一个帖中的相似讨论
引用如下

以下是引用joe11在2005-6-12 11:55:00的发言：
欧对于本题理解的延拓解释：

    

To illustrate:

    

e.g.1.   I wasn't born last year.   

    

              born 是去年中任何一时间点的事件，一次性动作。

    

e.g.2.    2 million AOL subscribers quit in last year.

    

              in last year, 表示去年一年中的事件,从1/1 到 12/31，时间段。重复性动作。

    大家看看本题是不是同理呢？


再回到这个题里，

Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as southern Texas.

 (A) Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

(B) In less than 35 years since releasing African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

(C) In less than the 35 years since African honeybees had been released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,

(D) It took less than 35 years from the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, when

(E) It took less than the 35 years after the time that African honeybees were released outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, and then

整个划线部分作为全句的状语，是不是和上面例子中的 last year 修饰方式类似呢？
请NN解惑

songlovegt

好像想通了

Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as southern Texas.

在这个句子中

Less than 35 years 其实是做状语修饰 the release 的，这也符合上面例子的解释，即无 in 表示任何一时间点的事件，一次性动作。
有 in 表示时间段。重复性动作。release 是一次性动作而非重复性动作，故即便是其他部分不变，改成 in less than 也是不正确的。
In less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,  their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as southern Texas.

通过此点，可以排除 B,C
另外全句的实际状语是　after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,　而非 Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil,
    

仔细比较他们的差异
Less than 35 years after the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as southern Texas.

After the release of African honeybees outside Sao Paulo, Brazil, their descendants, popularly known as killer bees, had migrated as far north as southern Texas.

songlovegt

顶上来，继续讨论