[原创]自我定位与出国留学

gmathack

Ok... Let me take back part of what I said.  Maybe my case and my idea only work for people who are interested in Entreneurship, like me.

chipmunk

以下是引用gmathack在2003-4-23 3:11:00的发言：
For me, I had my own business when I was still in school.  When I graduated, I had solid sales skill and technical skill.  

You really are an exception, I mean a good exception.

[quoet]Ok, what about this? I went to HP and worked as a technical consultant right after I graduated from a second tier university in Shanghai.  My GPA was only 2.5.  


Do you think timing is also a important factor here. I know 3 years ago, a guy with Chinese history background + 1-year computer training could get a > $60,000/year salary computer engineering job offer. But, you know what's happening nowadays.

gmathack

Do you think timing is also a important factor here. I know 3 years ago, a guy with Chinese history background + 1-year computer training could get a > $60,000/year salary computer engineering job offer. But, you know what's happening nowadays.

Company lives on profits.  If a person can not bring profit to his organization, he is dead.  If the economy is good, he can have the job.  Otherwise...  You can blame on timing but still, his personality may cause that too.

My principle is, to be a profit aware engineer.  Bosses would appreciate that.  Even in recession, boss is still looking for some person who can secure his position.  For example, if you are a boss, what kind of engineer you want?  A top school student who only knows technology or an engineer who can help to bring projects to keep your team alive?

A good engineer <> good technical person
A good engineer = value in the company

funnytiger

让我来插句可能没太大关系的话
在中国找工作， 可能跟美国不太一样， 我当年上海三流大学毕业， GPA还是不要提了， 95年的时候， 就有1万多月薪， 按当时的标准， 就算清华北大也拿不了这么高阿。
在中国， 关系， 消息的灵通性， 以及人际关系是最主要的， 在美国， 工作久了， 当然是看你的能力定你的前途， 但是在一开始， 安排你去什么部门， 让你管哪摊， 其实老板也不知道， 又没有人情可以送， 人家只好看文凭了。

gmathack

以下是引用funnytiger在2003-4-23 4:20:00的发言：
让我来插句可能没太大关系的话
在中国找工作， 可能跟美国不太一样， 我当年上海三流大学毕业， GPA还是不要提了， 95年的时候， 就有1万多月薪， 按当时的标准， 就算清华北大也拿不了这么高阿。
在中国， 关系， 消息的灵通性， 以及人际关系是最主要的， 在美国， 工作久了， 当然是看你的能力定你的前途， 但是在一开始， 安排你去什么部门， 让你管哪摊， 其实老板也不知道， 又没有人情可以送， 人家只好看文凭了。

ft, 也是上海人啊，别是互相认识的。

其实在美国也是有关系的。internal posting 的机会最大，外人很难递简历的。

attic

A interesting story related this topic three years ago:

Background: An beautiful young motel from Shenyang came to California. After lingering Disneyland, Hollywood, and Yellow Stone National Park, she was tired with the boring life in USA and then married a rich handsome engineer (a Taiwanese) worked in Boeing. In order to kill the leiture time as a housewife, she went to a community college to learn C++. Two year laters, when she graduated, she begin to look for job just for fun! Just as his husband said "as long as you can earn enough to buy the dogfood for our doggie, you win!

And the following is the dialogure between a famous computer company's HR manager and the beautiful model:

HR: Good morning! May I speak to XXX?

Model: This is she.

HR: Hi Ms. xxx, congratualations! We are glad to have you as our software engineer and would like to offer you $60000 for annual salary plus insurance and paid holiday.

Model: (too excided to believe) what?

HR: ok, if this is not enough, we could also offer you a sign-in bonus of $20000.

Model: (almost can believe such good things could happen to her) Oh, thank you, but this is only the third resume I've faxed out.

HR: well, Mam, if you would like to sign a employment contract within this week, we still would like to reimburse you tuition fee plus salary loss to the limit of additional $30000

Model: Don't hang up, I will be right in you office!

......

I was a friend of the husband, and was so admired to his wife. Therefore, I ask him: " your wife must be a software expert even before she went to the community college.

The husband replied: "Yeah, she IS a expert who can barely tell which is a monitor and which is a mouse.... Hey, wait a second, do you think that an expert need to go to a community college to learn her computer skills?"

funnytiger

haha, agree on gmathack on two things:

1. 美国也有人际关系， 而且跟中国的不太一样， 大家要努力学。 而我说的是指没有关系的公司新人， 我想可能代表大部分刚跨出校门的
2. 对于这个模特的故事， 我想补充的是， 长相和身材对找工作的帮助还是很大的， 谁不想有个美人在自己手下工作阿。 帅的男生也是同理。

usdusaj

如果要回来发展的话， 看你注重哪里， 如果你要大学的名字大家知道， 那只有harvard, yale, 了， mit都不一定有人知道。 跟不要说uiuc, ucla等其他的学校了。 相比之下， u of washington ， george washington u 说不定大家更记得住。进不了harvard, yale， 就近 u of washington ， george washington u 2,3 流的学校吧。反正mba也就是一个经历， 真正学到的东西还是少的很。
公司看重的还是工作经历， 能否带来利益。 现在国内的公司也本土化了， 大家心里都有一笔帐，职位如何都是定好的。工钱也不会有太大的差别。好的学校只不过起点高一点， 不代表以后就好。还是要靠自己。
同时， 不是每个人都可以进top 20的， 大家要考虑自己的情况。如果搞成非前面20不进， 那就不好了。心态就坏掉了。

funnytiger

要更正一下， MIT还是非常的响的， 事实上， 现在的中国信息产业部是非MIT不认阿， Harvard都靠边站

gmathack

要算另外一笔帐，2，3流大学的学费也不少，还有2年工作的时间经历，都是成本。 要算的就是这笔钱花在2，3流学校之不值得。

以下是引用usdusaj在2003-4-23 9:38:00的发言：
如果要回来发展的话， 看你注重哪里， 如果你要大学的名字大家知道， 那只有harvard, yale, 了， mit都不一定有人知道。 跟不要说uiuc, ucla等其他的学校了。 相比之下， u of washington ， george washington u 说不定大家更记得住。进不了harvard, yale， 就近 u of washington ， george washington u 2,3 流的学校吧。反正mba也就是一个经历， 真正学到的东西还是少的很。
公司看重的还是工作经历， 能否带来利益。 现在国内的公司也本土化了， 大家心里都有一笔帐，职位如何都是定好的。工钱也不会有太大的差别。好的学校只不过起点高一点， 不代表以后就好。还是要靠自己。
同时， 不是每个人都可以进top 20的， 大家要考虑自己的情况。如果搞成非前面20不进， 那就不好了。心态就坏掉了。