WE ARE HBS CLASS OF 2009 CDERS!

saphirelucky

想问问HBS的兄弟姐妹，HBS要求的三封推荐信，大家都是怎么安排的？我准备其中两封professional的。第三封请什么人好呢？教授还是peer？

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-11-28 15:25:00的发言：
Iammad said it well here: http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardID=13&ID=290892&page=1

弱问一下,网上申请recommendation provider 那部分
1.Title* 是指Mr Miss之类还是工作职位?
2.电话号码问了两次,Phone (main office line), Phone (direct/alternate line), office line就是直拨的话,第二个是不是就不用填了?

以下是引用mba2008mba在2007-12-1 23:49:00的发言：

我是照下面这样填的，不过还要等前辈们给confirm一下你再确定哦：
1）我填的是工作职位。
2）我两个都填了，用的同一个号码，就是office direct line。

推荐信的字数要求是不是要严格遵守呢？老板洋洋洒洒给我写了不少啊～～如果字数只是超一点是不是问题就不大了。

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-12-10 13:49:00的发言：
http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?BoardID=13&replyID=2605778&id=286247&skin=0

看到了推荐信的问题,并没有问applicant的weankness,但是为了显得坦诚,是不是需要让推荐人主动在信里指出我的不足呢? 谢谢～～

以下是引用robinst在2007-12-10 9:29:00的发言：

Use your best judgement what to put in...

以下是引用wall2006在2007-12-10 10:16:00的发言：

As I understand, the second question to the recommender is asking about your weakness, in an indirect way:   2. Please describe the most important piece of constructive feedback you have given the applicant. Please detail the circumstances and the applicant's response. (250-word limit)

我的理解怎么正好和 Wall2006相反呀？我怎么觉得是推荐人在这里说给过你的最好的评价呀～～大家快帮忙看看吧！！

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-12-10 14:53:00的发言：

Constructive - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/constructive
American Heritage Dictionary - 1. Serving to improve or advance; helpful: constructive criticism.
It's generally about something that you can improve upon.

谢谢各位～～  关于推荐信的constructive criticism 这问，仔细想了想好像是含有yaoyao等前辈说的意思。It's generally about something that you can improve upon.天哪。我的推荐人是native speaker,怎么也没看出是这个意思呢? 还有一位推荐人远在海外，已经把信交了，真不知道他是怎么理解这问的．如果推荐人理解有误，那是不是会对我的申请有副面影响啊？好担心呀～～

以下是引用wall2006在2007-12-11 2:54:00的发言：

You can ask admission office whether you can use the 'delete' feature in the recommendation provider list to remove a provider, then re-add him/her back. In that way, your provider may be able to re-submit the letters. I never did this before, so make sure that you ask first. Also your provider needs to agree to re-submit. Good luck!

真的有这么严重吗？ 这样做会不会有些此地无银300两？

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-12-12 1:34:00的发言：
No one else knows how off-topic your recommendations were except for you and your recommender.  Use your best judgement.

请教大家的推荐信格式是把对三问的回答融成一封信还是列一个问题，回答一个，向答考题一样？

以下是引用robinst在2007-12-11 1:30:00的发言：

最好是一问一答. 实在搞不定推荐人只能写一封信那也可以接受, 但是我个人觉得或多或少会影响点效果.

对不起，可能我没表达清。我的推荐人已经逐个对三个问题做出了直接回答。我的问题是最后上传时的格式。是向交考卷一样，1列出问题＋回答 2列出问题＋回答 3列出问题＋回答的格式还是一封信，不列出问题，直接写对1的回答＋对2的回答＋对3的回答（但是有to whom it concern等和信头之类的格式）？

以下是引用robinst在2007-12-11 22:43:00的发言：

似乎你没的选择吧-----最后只能UPLOAD一个文件.....还有问题要列出来, 然后回答; 不用to whom it concern.  (还有, 不是我不愿意回答你的问题, 但是我觉得做任何事情都要先用自己的"best judgement", 因为现实中的信息道听途说太多, 问meaningful 的问题也是一个很重要的技术.....这就好像, 如果你在哈佛面试的时候最后问 "哈佛的教学方法是什么?" 这样的问题肯定会负面影响你的表现一个道理.).  最后, 细节很重要, 但是如果一味纠缠细枝末节, 那么你会忽略大的 picture. 你的申请是一"整"个package, 重视内容...

谢谢robinst和yaoyao99两位的意见，很中肯，我也希望自己能多用judgment．但还有个问题请教. 公司的Annual Revenue，你自己的Salary Information这都是很sensitive的信息，不填有负面影响吗？特别是前者，有些公司也不愿意让下面的员工知道．

以下是引用camelhill在2007-12-17 0:35:00的发言：

Annual Revenue doesn't have to be exact number, a rough number will be okay, for example if your company generates 361.345Mn USD annually, it's perfectly fine to say 300Mn or 400Mn

I suggest you fill in your salary info, it's an important one, don't put an inaccurate number. Trust me, HBS will keep those information confidential, your salary information is safe here.

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-12-17 3:26:00的发言：
If it's a public company, everyone should know it.  If it's a private one and you truly have no idea, just say not available. 

dwwGMT

我本人想申请今年HBS推出的MBA/MPA 的joint degree，因为我的goal确实和government有很密切的关系，当然也和business有关，所有这个学位是100% fit 我的目标。网站上写这个学位要分别申请两个学位，都被录取后才会admitted，我申请joint degree似乎给自己制造更高的一个门槛。请问前辈，只申请MBA和申请 joint degree从被录取的难度来说，哪个要更大一些呢？

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-11-29 0:53:00的发言：
Like you said, you need both schools to offer you admission and there are significantly fewer people in that program, comparing to the general MBA or MPA program.

mba2008mba

以下是引用robinst在2007-11-30 1:41:00的发言：

个人感觉你的PROFILE 总体不错, 就看你最后整个PACKAGE做的如何了.....(基本功都在了, 进与不进, 80% 人为---花多大心思准备材料, 20% 天命吧) 职业--- 挺好, 挺适合HBS MBA 的PROFILE. ACADEMIC---很好, 加拿大学位, MAJOR 很适合读MBA... VOLUNTEER---有了, 看你怎么PRESENT. GMAT---不是特别高, 但是足够了, 因为跟你的ACADEMIC MAJOR 可以相辅相成了. 其他----会中文的加拿大中国女生, 恩, 是个优势.加油吧.

以下是引用wall2006在2007-12-2 1:05:00的发言：
精通普通话和广东话的加拿大中国男生，能凑上吗？   我这种八年多工作经验的，肯定是古董了

非常谢谢楼上的分析，好像打了一针强心针。请问前辈，我的工作经验三年会不会有点短？但是中间还是比较intensive的，前两年在一个部门，后一年rotate到另一个部门，我是不是应该好好present一下从中学到的东西？谢谢

以下是引用robinst在2007-11-30 7:29:00的发言：

三年工作经验足够了, 不长不短刚刚好....象我工作5年后来读, 发现自己在同学中算老了....5555.....

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-1-8 23:32:28编辑过]

aiman08

HBS的WEBSITE上对TOEFL成绩的最低要求是109(TOEFL-IBT)，但我只考了100分。（GMAT 730，多年海外工作经验，工作语言为英语）。不清楚HBS是否会因为TOEFL成绩直接据了？确认的是，去年有位朋友107也去了HBS。但也听说去年有TOEFL-IBT成绩是105和100的也去了。麻烦YAOYAO及HBS的大侠们是否可以帮助确认一下这个消息是否属实？这个问题牵扯到个人的隐私，确实有一点不妥！但确实现在这个问题现在是自己的一块心病，尽管自己对HBS有着无比的憧憬，但如若确实HBS对TOEFL成绩要求没有商量的余地的话，我也就放弃了，把更多的精力放到其它学校了。毕竟认真准备一所学校的精力是巨大的，特别是HBS这样的学校。所以还请HBS的大侠们，如若你们确实有这方面的消息，还请帮确认一下（只是帮助确认一下这个事实，并不要具体到某人）！多谢！

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-12-3 11:20:00的发言：

There may or may not be people with TOEFL scores but I'm not sure how beneficial it will be to you.  Everyone has different background and circumstances.  Every component of your application is a data point and will be evaluated with other data points.  The purpose of the test is to evaluate your ability to communicate in English.  As long as you can convince the admissions office that your ability is above 109, regardless of the test score, you should be fine.  Good luck!

以下是引用camelhill在2007-12-5 5:23:00的发言：

Don't worry too much about test scores. If you would give up HBS just because of Toefl Score, I will be wondering how strongly you want to go to HBS. As we replied on earlier posts, application is a comprehensive package (scores, background, essays, recommendations, interviews etc). Each element doesn't make or break your result, it's the whole application that makes a difference.

yaoyao99, camelhill, thank you so much for your kindly and helpful suggestions.

hellomj

经研究 似乎中国学生进HBS都是典型的根红苗正 比如 清华北大本科+TOP CONSULTING WE 不知道有没有普通中国本科的也能成功进入的先例 可供瞻仰效仿 或者说 有什么可以弥补本科的弱点 WE似乎可以 但是如果不是TOP本科 WE以及其他的也不容易有很亮的亮点 可以用比较好的硕士来弥补否 比如LSE或者LBS的 或者2个 因为毕竟1年比较薄弱看起来 本科都是3-4年的说 进去的各位牛牛如果看到那样的实例 请告诉我！！！！ 谢谢大家

以下是引用camelhill在2007-12-7 4:01:00的发言：

Every one is unique, and HBS never rejected people because he's not from top university in China. Make sure you spent enough time and effort on your application, only your application package can get you through. The fact is we do see people from China in HBS that are not from Peking Univ and Tsinghua.

非常感谢camel同学 第一次在这里问问题 真是回复太快了

在CAMEL的回答上偶再加问一下，偶也确实知道有不是清华，北大去HBS的。但听说好像范围（从国内过去的），还是有局限的。听说主要（甚至到目前位置，绝大部分）来自：清华，北大，复旦，上海交大，浙江大学，这5所学校。出了这5所学校以外，好像是凤毛麟角了。我也是听一个朋友说的，不知道是否属实？请YAOYAO99, CAMEL 及HBS的各位朋友是否可以通过你们内部的数据库，查实一下最近几年的数据，给确认一下这个消息？确实是，凡事都有可能，但如若知道一个概率统计的话，偶们也可以调整一下申请战略！多谢

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-12-7 10:51:00的发言：
I don't understand how other people's background will be helpful for your application.  Yes, there are students from famous schools and yes, there are students from schools outside of your list.  Where you went to school is a fact that you won't be able to change and if that stops you from applying, I would have serious doubts about your commitment to the school.  There are many other aspects of your application that you do have control over, why not worry about those instead?  Good luck!

在CAMEL的回答上偶再加问一下，偶也确实知道有不是清华，北大去HBS的。但听说好像范围（从国内过去的），还是有局限的。听说主要（甚至到目前位置，绝大部分）来自：清华，北大，复旦，上海交大，浙江大学，这5所学校。出了这5所学校以外，好像是凤毛麟角了。我也是听一个朋友说的，不知道是否属实？请YAOYAO99, CAMEL 及HBS的各位朋友是否可以通过你们内部的数据库，查实一下最近几年的数据，给确认一下这个消息？确实是，凡事都有可能，但如若知道一个概率统计的话，偶们也可以调整一下申请战略！多谢!

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-12-7 10:51:00的发言：
I don't understand how other people's background will be helpful in putting together your application.  Yes, there are students from famous schools and yes, there are students from schools outside of your list.  Where you went to school is a fact that you won't be able to change and if that stops you from applying, I would have serious doubts about your commitment to the school.  There are many other aspects of your application that you do have control over, why not worry about those instead?  Good luck!

以下是引用camelhill在2007-12-7 11:40:00的发言：

As I said in the earlier post, each year there are people from schools other than the five you mentioned; I can't give you the exact number. We encourage people with various background to apply, and ultimately it's your final call as to whether to apply and how to apply. One final advice, focus on things you can control, ignore things that are beyond your control!

Thank you so much , yaoyao99 and camel. The more you care about sth, the more nervous sometime you are. During this long and tough application process, somtime I become so  fragile. Hehe, anyway thank you again for you take your previous time to answer the quesitons kind of a little naive.

你们HBS里面的以前做咨询的多么 都是咨询什么方面的 generalist or corporate finance?

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-12-12 6:47:00的发言：

There's a link to class profile on the first floor.  We don't know the specifics of someone else's job.  It could be any of the disciplines.

flower2

请教一个问题：本人的short term career plan想做M&A in corp (not in IB), i want to say sth why i have this thought.(eg: what i could learn from a M&A position etc). could anybody provide me some insight on it? (my long term goal is to become a cfo )thanks!

以下是引用robinst在2007-12-10 9:26:00的发言：

I don't think we can offer advice as specific as to your personal career goals. All in all, you should be the one who knows what you desire to do, and convince the Adcom of your plan.

christine66

有明显的缺陷 请教大家怎样做？英国TOP MSC， TOPIB 但是做的GLOBAL MARKET OPERATIONS 2YS, TOP咨询 但是只有2年 都是analyst. 很坏的事情是我是28的老女人了，还有就是本科是国内很普通的，另外工作经验很不DIVERSE，都是在LONDON，连自己国家的都没做过。最矛盾的是要快promote，看似要个MBA，但是HBS的MBA又看似需要先被升才有机会。。。这个要怎么办呢 哦 讲普通话 广东话 英文 法语，然后就没什么看着有用的地方了。怎么办呢，谢谢大家先

以下是引用robinst在2007-12-11 1:26:00的发言：

你就象一个拿着一手好牌但是却不会打的人 -----这是你的明显的缺陷!! (恕我直言, 28说自己"很坏的事情是我是28的老女人了" 的人在我的评论里 mentality 是不足申请 HBS 的..... )  另外, 你的说的很多 "看似....看似...."的信息都是道听途说....我可以告诉你那是谬论.

谢谢小R同学：） 大概明白了 年龄不是问题 身高不是距离。。。kidding la 就是突出我有的 没有的我也没办法 刚查的 平均年龄27 正负个2，3年的小意思啦 祝好啦 哈哈哈哈哈

以下是引用robinst在2007-12-11 4:31:00的发言：

sorry 我说话可能比较harsh 哦, 但是确实你有十分好的 profile, 看你乱发牢骚就有点....."激动"...另外, 我不是小 R了...我可不比你小 (实例回答你的年龄疑问哦..哈哈)

asdf116699

in HBS essays, nothing is asked about why mba, why hbs, etc.

A). do we have to talk about them in the career goal essay? or

B). do we better talk nothing about them and save space for more important things as HBS takes it for granted that HBS helps enormously(i take it for granted too). or

C). do we need to use our best judgement on this issue?

thanks, DDMM

以下是引用camelhill在2007-12-17 0:32:00的发言：

Since it didn't explicitly ask those questions, It's perfectly fine if you don't address it and it's also fine if you address in essays other than the career goal one. I would recommend you spend a few sentences in the right place to show why an MBA at HBS will help you a lot in your life, but not too many words. By the way, why do you address us DDMM? simply because you think you are older than us? haha  

thanks a lot, camelhill, for your sound advice.  yeah, i am older than 90%, if not 99%, of MBA students  although my heart is no older than 90%, if not 99%, of MBA students

AthenaFan

首先感慨一下，觉得CD能提供这样的平台让在校前辈们和申请者做自由的交流真是棒极了。  两个比较直接的问题，麻烦前辈们帮忙解答：
1) 前面提到了HBS和其他peer school相比有非常与众不同的方面，我所知道只有a.strong emphasis on leardership b. case study method. 请问还有什么别的方面呢？
2）Wharton seems to have strong emphasis on international experience, 您觉得HBS是否也是同样的情况呢？多次海外旅游和多一门外语是否能带来较大的优势呢？好像大家都知道哪些素质Adcom会比较重视，但是essay篇幅不是很多，希望能够通过了解priority来安排各种特点的先后。非常感谢！

以下是引用camelhill在2007-12-20 3:06:00的发言：

1) My personal feeling is 1) case learning method is clearly one; 2) resources are very affluent and accessible, both professors and facilities; 3) alumni network is very strong; 4) last but not the least GREAT students, sectionmates and schoolmates are all great people!

2) application is an overall package, you should focus on delivering a strong package rather than a strong point. If you believe it's your advantage, leverage that to make a strong case.

关于case studay，能不能请各位在校同学分享一下你所感受到的弊与利呢？我现在能想到的就只有：

弊: 没有系统的学习知识，容易混水摸鱼（我听一个hbs毕业生开玩笑说的），
利：培养了雄辩的口才，提高了自信，接触了很多商业案件实例，养成了良好的决策习惯

以及什么样的背景或特征的人更适合case study的学习模式呢？谢谢！

以下是引用yaoyao99在2008-2-18 15:17:00的发言：

Here's the HBS take on case method:
http://www.hbs.edu/case/

Here are two good pieces on case method:
http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/management/Bun-Comp/Case-Method-of-Analysis.html
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=911808

And here's a fairly comprehensive list of pros and cons:
http://mbamap.com/mba-select/mba-case-method.htm

yaoyao99 给了这么多的好资料，感谢，感谢，一定要好好研究一下。趁着大家最近都在等offer，我来问两个弱一点的问题哦。

- 你最近几年的收入水平对于adcom衡量你的水平,or career potential 有什么影响呢？我只是觉得大家在不同的行业，特别是不同的国家工作，收入水平当然是有差距的了。如果有别的申请者没有报告真实的收入水平，这样的evaluation不是就有失偏颇吗？

- 每年top mba program的申请者里面这么多investment banker 和 consultant的，大家收入都挺高，为什么大部分学校需要各种类型经济补助的学生还要超过70%呢？如果收入水平是衡量申请者career potential 的因素之一，这个percentage不是说明大家不成功或者不擅长储蓄吗？一直有点想不通。

以下是引用yaoyao99在2008-2-26 0:11:00的发言：

You're welcome.  Hope you found them helpful.  Don't worry.  Questions are questions.

1. Special promotions and awards will serve as a plus to your application whereas flat salary will probably serve as warning sign.  Background check and the actual level of responsibilities should take care of problematic reportings.  I won't worry about what other people choose to do but focus on doing your best.  Admissions officers review applications from most industries from all over the world every year.  I'm sure they have a good sense of the norm.

2. Take a look at the link to class profile on the first floor and you should be able to see that the majority of HBS students come from something other than consulting and banking.  I trust other schools have similiar break-downs.  Even for the students from those industries, they may not all have been that industry for many years to have $80-$90k saved up for school and have other obligations, such as family and mortage.

HooSelect

最近看到感受到MBA负面的消息太多，想问一下HBS近两年的毕业就业情况。美国经济萧条，或许在大选之后会有所复苏，但是不管多少都影响了就业情况。是否也影响了HBS的就业？HBS毕业都会100%找到北美合适工作吗？中国学生毕业去向是否因为口语问题，就业情况少乐观？你的同学30岁以上的多吗？谢谢你的时间。

以下是引用camelhill在2007-12-20 3:03:00的发言：

the answers to other questions can be found on hbs's website, we can't disclose individual's career choices without permission of themselves.  About 100% career in US, this is an interesting question, it really depends on your own choice, not every one wants to work in the states after MBA.  About the impact by the economy, again it's case by case. Overall, job placement in HBS is very nice.

It seems that if the answer is positive, people always tells you the truth directly and clearly.  On another hand, people would like to play with words if held negative opinions, just in case won't hurt anyone's feelings. I believe "job placement in HBS is very nice", but not for anyone who in HBS, right?  If there is some kind of research like "what happened after HBS" , that would be interesting and helpful.  Thanks for your time

以下是引用yaoyao99在2007-12-20 5:23:00的发言：
Camehill gave you the truth directly and clearly.  I'm not sure what you're hinting at.  Everyone has different goals and different capabilities.  Having HBS on your resume is a plus to your overall package but it does NOT replace what you have done before nor enhance you to be the ideal candidate for all positions at all companies.  There are plenty of cases written on what HBS graduates have done at various settings.  Some successes and some failures.  You're welcome to check them out: http://www.hbsp.harvard.edu/hbsp/index.jsp?_requestid=15334