二流美国法学院JD毕业就业前景

Lilac29

以下是引用polyester在2007-3-28 1:04:00的发言：
完全理解，除了patent，你也可以考虑一下tax。如果仅仅为了生计的话，immigration似乎也不错。

另外，你国内搞不好还是我师兄呢，叫我大侠真是不敢当。

这样说话，中听多了。上来就训斥别人narrowminded，实在was不太nice.

Lilac29

以下是引用Expert123在2007-3-28 1:29:00的发言：

Patent is a niche that certainly gives you a leg up in the job search. For someone who is patent bar eligible, choosing another specialty may add in some risk in getting a well-paying job. Of course, this may not be true for people in HYS or at the top of their classes.

The truth is many of the "non-firm" job options such as clerkship, teaching, and top international non-prof orgs, at least in the U.S., are only for the lucky few. Namely, you have to be graduating from Yale, Harvard, Stanford, etc., or at the top (1-25% depending on the school) of your class to have a realistic shot. This is true for both American and international students. While there are perhaps 100 Chinese JDs (per year) graduating from Top 20 schools, the number of people who actually fit into this description is amazingly small. I'd say, maybe 20 among these 100 have a realistic shot. Then, among these 20, those options may not be viable for the ones who have a family to support or have a large amount of debt.

Of course, people are quick to point out there are public interest jobs that may have "loan forgiveness programs." Again, ask yourself, are you willing to work for $30000-50000 a year in exchange of having $10000-20000 forgiven a year? This is unrealistic for someone who has 150000-200000 in debt at graduation. Again, those at HYS may say that their loan forgiveness programs are far more generous. But then, most of them don't need these generous programs anyway since they have great job options.

For the vast majority of Chinese JD students in the US, the most logical (and realistic) choice is to find a big law job in a specialty with little competition from natives. Patent is such a practice, so is tax, so is international corporate work with a Chinese focus. Those job choices has nothing to do with a person's lack of idealism. They are just the few options available for many Chinese JDs here.

Sure, we all hear about Jds who become Judges, Senators, Presidents, CEOs, etc. But we also hear about lottery ticket winners. The question is not whether these roles in life are desirable, ambitious, or idealistic. It is whether such roles are attainable by a Chinese who is pursuing a JD degree in one of the non-elite schools with a family to support, and a loan to pay off.

这个帖子写得好。对所有人来说，利用自身优势，生活都会相对容易一些。

不过真想去教书呀。

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-3-28 1:38:53编辑过]

Expert123

In some ways, getting a JD in a non-elite school and/or without financial support is like putting in years of personal savings into stock investment.

You may like certain companies because those companies are innovative, socially progressive, and  environmental conscious. You may also find that they produce great products and treat employees extremely well. However, given the large amount of investment you cannot afford to lose, most people will be well advised to put their money into the companies that are profitable. Afterall, that company is not going to feed you and your familiy after your investment in their stocks loses 90% in value.

Of course, once you have already made a lot of money in stocks, or if you coming from a very wealthy background, you can afford to invest in these companies even if they are not profitable. But then, your sole objective is not to grow your capital, but to support a worthy cause.

Similarly, for most people, a job is the means to get paid and support their family. We cannot all afford to work for little pay, no matter how noble and interesting these jobs are. Unfortunatley, this is true for many Chinese JDs. It is not fair to say they are selfish or short-sighted when they do not have reasonable alternatives.

Of course, just like the stock situtation, once lawyers have saved enough to maintain a decent living standard, some will follow their heart and do pro bono work, volunteer in their communities, or switch to lower paying, but more meaningful job. There is just a time and place for everything.

 

 

neohawk

以下是引用Lilac29在2007-3-28 1:36:00的发言：

这个帖子写得好。对所有人来说，利用自身优势，生活都会相对容易一些。

不过真想去教书呀。

那位哥们说出了我的心声呀, 还是有人能理解我们这种人的. 可能很多人会觉得我这种人没有理想,就是个混饭吃的loser, 没有办法呀, 年轻的时候也想过要怎么样怎么样,但是干什么都得先能让父母,老婆孩子能过下去呀.

再说句功利的话,好像去教书钱也不少, 所以你的愿望很可能实现而且生活无忧.

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-3-28 1:52:00编辑过]

Expert123

Yes, the salary for teaching (in the U.S.) is quite good, although in the first few years of teaching, the salary is still lower than big law salary.

However, the competition for law school teaching is extremely high. We were told that to have a reasonable (less than 50% shot), you basically have to attend elite schools (HYS) or have nearly perfect record (grades, law review, activities, papers) from other good schools.

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-3-28 2:03:44编辑过]

Expert123

以下是引用neohawk在2007-3-28 1:51:00的发言：

那位哥们说出了我的心声呀, 还是有人能理解我们这种人的. 可能很多人会觉得我这种人没有理想,就是个混饭吃的loser, 没有办法呀, 年轻的时候也想过要怎么样怎么样,但是干什么都得先能让父母,老婆孩子能过下去呀.

事实如此. 老婆说该买房子了, 小孩要上学, 父母要赡养...  责任重大, 大学时候"舍我其谁"的劲头只好在小说书里重温了.

limpidlyric

以下是引用Expert123在2007-3-28 1:29:00的发言：

Patent is a niche that certainly gives you a leg up in the job search. For someone who is patent bar eligible, choosing another specialty may add in some risk in getting a well-paying job. Of course, this may not be true for people in HYS or at the top of their classes.

The truth is many of the "non-firm" job options such as clerkship, teaching, and top international non-prof orgs, at least in the U.S., are only for the lucky few. Namely, you have to be graduating from Yale, Harvard, Stanford, etc., or at the top (1-25% depending on the school) of your class to have a realistic shot. This is true for both American and international students. While there are perhaps 100 Chinese JDs (per year) graduating from Top 20 schools, the number of people who actually fit into this description is amazingly small. I'd say, maybe 20 among these 100 have a realistic shot. Then, among these 20, those options may not be viable for the ones who have a family to support or have a large amount of debt.

Of course, people are quick to point out there are public interest jobs that may have "loan forgiveness programs." Again, ask yourself, are you willing to work for $30000-50000 a year in exchange of having $10000-20000 forgiven a year? This is unrealistic for someone who has 150000-200000 in debt at graduation. Again, those at HYS may say that their loan forgiveness programs are far more generous. But then, most of them don't need these generous programs anyway since they have great job options.

For the vast majority of Chinese JD students in the US, the most logical (and realistic) choice is to find a big law job in a specialty with little competition from natives. Patent is such a practice, so is tax, so is international corporate work with a Chinese focus. Those job choices has nothing to do with a person's lack of idealism. They are just the few options available for many Chinese JDs here.

Sure, we all hear about Jds who become Judges, Senators, Presidents, CEOs, etc. But we also hear about lottery ticket winners. The question is not whether these roles in life are desirable, ambitious, or idealistic. It is whether such roles are attainable by a Chinese who is pursuing a JD degree in one of the non-elite schools with a family to support, and a loan to pay off.

This is the most detailed, practical, targeted answer to my initial question. Thank you!

limpidlyric

以下是引用polyester在2007-3-27 14:21:00的发言：
I do not think it is possible to chart a career path for anyone on the BBS. You should probably ask yourself a few questions before seeking advice on the internet. Are you willing to go back to China? What is the miminal  income you would accept in US? In China? What are you interested in? Human right? Environment? Are you interested in any particular area of law? Have you got any technical background? Do you have Chinese bar? Do you have any experience with international organizations? Any interest in NGOs? Any previous internship? Any connections with the government? Are you a Party member? Are you American citizen? Are you willing to work as an immigrant lawyer? Are you interested in the academia? Have you published any papers? Have you worked with professors here? What are there subjects of interests? Can they give you exceptional recommendations? Is your law school prestigious in your local area? etc...

Of course there are other options. But do these options suit you? Only yourself can answer these questions.

How do you know that I didn't ask these preliminary questions to myself? Things I did not say does not mean they did not happen. Instead, after considering all of these questions, I still need some input in order to facilitate my decision because those prelimiary questions you elaborated are too simple to solve the complicated challenges that chinese JDs in 2nd tier law school face.

"charter a career path for anyone on the BBS" is your own assumption, sorry for my frankness, as i said, " to find alternative options within limited range" is the purpose of this post, and it is differnt from "charter a career path for anyone on the BBS".

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-3-28 2:44:10编辑过]

zindan

说的很中肯啊

秋天的虫子

不要怪我mean,这个帖子吵了半天都是空谈,楼上诸位高手倒是拿出点数据,实例什么的,

象虎哥的帖子,虽然有的结论下的极端点,但是基本都有有用的信息,

看了几十个回帖空谈点人生理想,楼主你就敢放心大胆的去读tier2了?

最近压力比较大,说话冲点,得罪勿怪