said or judge? I need more information

nnm

以下是引用avy1201在2007-3-30 23:17:00的发言：

楼上这个长达160多页的帖子我早前就全部读过，总体的就业情况不错，但是没有特别关于中国学生情况的信息。

呵呵, 确实木有.

不过Oxford的国际学生还是占大多数, 中国的也不会太差.

orangeb

看了你的帖子，我特地花时间去搜索了CD上LBS, Insead的就业资料。我所搜索到的仅仅是2005年Insead16人回大陆，以及这两个学校毕业生回大陆的工资水平，而没有这两个学校中国的MBA毕业生在欧洲找工作的情况。而且所有的资料都是当时的申请人收集到的，而没有看到这两个学校的毕业生在CD上介绍中国学生的就业情况。可以想象的是，网上更容易找到LBS和Insead的资料，因为这两个学校的中国毕业生数量远远超过牛津剑桥。即使如此，我没有看到有上述学校的毕业生在CD上发贴，说自己找到了什么工作，收入多少，或者介绍其他同界的中国毕业学生的就业情况。（事实上这也完全是人之常情，入学和毕业后大部分人会比较少上来CD,对任何一家学校的学生来说都一样）。

Even this INSEAD post is more detailed than the vague information provided by Ox Cam alumni.

There is a post about LBS, detailing the job function and company name of every Chinese.

Please go to North America Application, where you can find many top 20-40 program’s placement information for Chinese.

你说每年有不少被牛剑录取的中国学生。我在准备牛津的面试时搜索了所有的CD上的相关资料，想联系在读的或毕业的学生给我的面试建议，我事实上只联系到了一个中国毕业生，我没有咨询他中国学生的就业情况，但从邮件地址看到他在伦敦的一家知名投行工作。

Please ask him about the placement information, and share with us.

我要说的是，

第一，我不知道牛剑的毕业生的就业情况，但是你认为他们就业情况不好到目前为止没有说服力。

I said: both are “so so”, which means neither good nor bad. (better than many UK schools, but worse than LBS and many US schools)

第二，到一个兴奋的刚刚被学校录取的网友的帖子里声称这两所学校so so. I believe that is obvious not an elegant behavior.

Come on. LZ is seeking advice, and here is my advice! “Both are so so in terms of job prospects, so choose the one with lower cost.” Anything wrong with this?

BTW, are you coming to CD for congratulations or for objective comments? You can get plenty of congratulations from people who are not familiar with MBA rankings. But here, CDers all know that Ox and Cam’s MBA are second tier, in terms of both students background and placement records.

avy1201

以下是引用orangeb在2007-3-31 2:14:00的发言：

Even this INSEAD post is more detailed than the vague information provided by Ox Cam alumni.

Would you show me either Insead LBS ALUMNI or Oxbridge ALUMNI privided detailed info in CD? I only found infomation collected by present applicats from, e.g. placement report in shool's website. NONE ALUMNI provided detailed info here.

There is a post about LBS, detailing the job function and company name of every Chinese.

That post, if I remembered right, is the placement of MIF, not MBA. If you are giving advice to a MBA (like this forum meant to be), you better provide the right infomation.

Please go to North America Application, where you can find many top 20-40 program’s placement information for Chinese.

This point is totally irrelevant! LZ is NOT comparing a European school with US school. As i personally settled in Europe, I neither considered US programs, nor did any research about US programs. I simply don't bother!

However, I am willing to remind you that, we have Liusha, a present Cambridge students taking questions.

http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardID=36&ID=202941&page=2

I don't see this with LBS and Insead.

你说每年有不少被牛剑录取的中国学生。我在准备牛津的面试时搜索了所有的CD上的相关资料，想联系在读的或毕业的学生给我的面试建议，我事实上只联系到了一个中国毕业生，我没有咨询他中国学生的就业情况，但从邮件地址看到他在伦敦的一家知名投行工作。

Please ask him about the placement information, and share with us.

I can easily secure a decent job in the country I reside without a Oxbridge degree, so the placement data I don't really care. I believe whether I can find a job after graduation IS depending on myself, not the placement data. For that reason I did not ask and not going to ask the busy alumnus.

我要说的是，

第一，我不知道牛剑的毕业生的就业情况，但是你认为他们就业情况不好到目前为止没有说服力。

I said: both are “so so”, which means neither good nor bad. (better than many UK schools, but worse than LBS and many US schools)

Nobody is claiming Oxbridge is better, nor does LZ compare Oxbridge with other school. Therefore your so so comments is totally unneeded.

第二，到一个兴奋的刚刚被学校录取的网友的帖子里声称这两所学校so so. I believe that is obvious not an elegant behavior.

Come on. LZ is seeking advice, and here is my advice! “Both are so so in terms of job prospects, so choose the one with lower cost.” Anything wrong with this?

BTW, are you coming to CD for congratulations or for objective comments? You can get plenty of congratulations from people who are not familiar with MBA rankings. But here, CDers all know that Ox and Cam’s MBA are second tier, in terms of both students background and placement records.

Are you giving serious advice?? You are basically saying, both programs are, again, use your words, so so, so just choose whatever one. The cheaper one!! Is it a serous advice?? You call it an objective comments?? The two programs are very different and have strengths in different area. Despit LZ's background and career goal, you suggest to choose a cheaper one.

Again, nobody is claiming Oxbridge is best and nobody here in this post need your advice to compare Oxbridge with other schools. So your so so comment is unneeded.

orangeb

以下是引用avy1201在2007-3-31 3:11:00的发言：

第一，我不知道牛剑的毕业生的就业情况，但是你认为他们就业情况不好到目前为止没有说服力。
            

I said: both are “so so”, which means neither good nor bad. (better than many UK schools, but worse than LBS and many US schools)

Nobody is claiming Oxbridge is better, nor does LZ compare Oxbridge with other school. Therefore your so so comments is totally unneeded.

Again, so so means neither good nor bad. Sorry this adjective may displease you (who must have great expectation of Oxbridge).

第二，到一个兴奋的刚刚被学校录取的网友的帖子里声称这两所学校so so. I believe that is obvious not an elegant behavior.

Come on. LZ is seeking advice, and here is my advice! “Both are so so in terms of job prospects, so choose the one with lower cost.” Anything wrong with this?

BTW, are you coming to CD for congratulations or for objective comments? You can get plenty of congratulations from people who are not familiar with MBA rankings. But here, CDers all know that Ox and Cam’s MBA are second tier, in terms of both students background and placement records.

Are you giving serious advice?? You are basically saying, both programs are, again, use your words, so so, so just choose whatever one. The cheaper one!! Is it a serous advice?? You call it an objective comments?? The two programs are very different and have strengths in different area. Despit LZ's background and career goal, you suggest to choose a cheaper one.

Again, nobody is claiming Oxbridge is best and nobody here in this post need your advice to compare Oxbridge with other schools. So your so so comment is unneeded.

 

BECAUSE both programs are so so in terms of job prospects, THEREFORE, cost is a major issue here.

If both have great job prospects, then the difference between costs will become minimal compared with future salary, and other factors such as academic strengths, life style, location, will play more important roles in different choosing programs.

avy1201

Many thanks for your link! Especially highlighting the red part. That is exactly one cannot draw conclusion that the placement is so so!!!

The post was written by a student in 2004 MBA with 10 Chinese students. I can very reasonably assume the Chinese in 2003 MBA no more than 10. (Oxford MBA enrollment grows every year and keep certain percentage of students from one country).

In such situation,Only one guy landed a job in a small company in London. But quite a few Chinese alumni of previous years are said to work in Europe. Quite a percentage students found international job. Do you mean to say only finding job in London counts?? Any jobs in other places in Europe is so so???

About the career service, are we here to discuss career service? I am not. But again thank you for telling us. ( If you weigh very much on career service, you could find data on Business Week, for most schools, jobs found with help of career service is minor percentage).

Instead of trying your best to prove Oxbridge is so so for job perspective, I would very much apreciate you back to the point. LZ asks advice to help choose between Ox and Cam. Did you give any advice to compare these two programs?? NO. You said choose a cheaper one. So according to your theory, people with career goals of finance or technology or entrepreneueship should all go to the cheaper one(which is Cambridge). And of course doesn't matter, they will end up in same so so job any way.

steffie

so confused here, just need to compare Said and Judge? Why bring LBS and INSEAD in?

To Orangeb: except money,appreciated if you could share us other criteria, remember, only for Said and Judge.

To everybody: if you wanna bebate out of the subject of this thread, just open another one, don't ruin LZ's

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-3-31 15:29:54编辑过]

wonderpiece

以下是引用orangeb在2007-3-30 20:27:00的发言：

就看一个事实：CD上每年都有不少被牛剑录取的中国同学，但搜索一下发现，几年来，都没有正面，详细介绍牛剑中国人毕业后工作的情况。其中原因大家应该心知肚明吧。如果就业好，校友肯定会广泛宣传吧。另外，个人隐私问题也不是借口，工作找得好，你会不跟别人说吗？这个论坛上关于美国前五十名，LBS, INSEAD的就业介绍比比皆是。

据论坛上一位校友介绍，某年牛劲的中国人除了一个留在英国的一个小公司，其余都回了中国。（不是说回中国不好，但若是loca pay的话就不咋地了，那位仁兄没有详细介绍，但应该能猜个八九不离十吧）另外，我所知道的，一个中国人去了某外资银行做小经理，当时月新一万左右。另一个在德勤咨询做经理，local pay。

请两校的校友提供更多的信息。

怎么说呢，这个假设也许只适用于某些人吧。并不是每个牛津人都是象你想象得这样的。

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-4-2 22:26:16编辑过]

insider

哇塞，好久不来CD，这里还见仁见智呢。毕业好久了，大家说的云里雾里的，还是我说点实在的吧,跟咱中国人有关的：

1、本人2005年SBS MBA毕业的，在校拿到OFFER，参加毕业典礼后一周内上班，某咨询公司。我们班中国人呢，工作找的吧，我个人感觉也不错，2个世界顶尖的地产咨询公司(魏理仕和仲量行），博雅PR，VISA，De Beers London, 世界经济论坛，某著名PE Firm, 还有个制造业的CEO.大家基本都对SBS所给与的机会感到相当满意，更不要说牛津的生活经历了.学校只是一个台阶，归根结底，还是看个人工作背景和机遇。不是美国TOP10跟oxbridge一比就怎么样了，1，2年改变不了一个人，只是人生的小片段，大家不要看的太重。我们公司的一堆PARTNER,没几个MBA，更别说TOP10了，你要以为你上了牛校咋样了？嘿嘿，没戏。

2.JBS,SBS的区别呢，SBS硬件设施好，JBS考试比较少，牛津重传统（考试要穿袍子,要别花），剑桥有创新，大家都差不多，也别互相争执，其实出来了还是oxbridge,校友聚会的时候很多场合碰在一起，都是朋友，很不错的。我就和我们公司的cambridge 的老兄关系特铁。国贸片儿区的oxbridge还经常在一起吃午饭呢，呵呵，没想到吧.

3。关于INSEAD,LBS,和Oxbridge,前2所是商业教育的前辈，后面呢算后之秀，依我看，没多大区别，我们同事里，MIT,LBS,INSEAD,Chicago,kellogg,oxbridge,中欧的哪里都有，不过你想从毕业学校推断这个人现在的职位，估计您的失望，因为绝对是超级随机，没啥相关性。所以没有最好的，只有最合适自己的。

好几年没发帖，一不小心说这么多，见笑了，还是继续潜水省心，闷声发大财吧。嘿嘿

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-4-3 0:10:05编辑过]

avy1201

嗬嗬，两位前辈现身，多谢提供信息！！

（早点出来我就不必在前面多费唇舌了）