About Darden

vivaivy

He is not Darden student, just UVA student.UVA is really not that famous in U.S and other places anyway.But the school is established by a great man I admire, and I believe it still deserve its share of reputation.(地位和南开在中国是否有些类似?)

citigroupztc

UVa does have a very good reputation in the East. But it's pretty much unheard of to the West and certainly not in China. However, UVa's law school is very prestigious, partially due to its proximity to Washington D.C. UVa's undergraduate schools (College of Arts & Sciences, McIntire School of Commerce, and School of Engineering & Applied Sciences) come into second to the law school prestige-wise. The undergraduate schools have traditionally been targets for ALL prestigious investment banks, ALL management consulting firms and almost all other large U.S. and multinational corporations you can possibly name. The job prospect is very good. For the year I graduated, ALL native Chinese students were placed into top companies: bulge bracket IBs, Big 4 accouting firms, worldwide management/IT consulting firms, etc. From what I heard, this year is also a good year for native Chinese students at UVa despite of the economy downturn. More detailed placement records will come in soon. UVa's undergraduate schools have very strong presense on Wall Street and management consulting practices. But not Darden, one reason is that Darden does not produce as many MBAs as other bigger programs, the other reason is that prestigious corporations are just not that fanatic about Darden MBAs. It doesn't sound very good, but it's the truth. But as a small program might benefit, Darden's alumni are very friendly and helpful. They are very smart and nice people, at least for those I have met over time. Therefore, sometimes I hate myself for saything some negative things about Darden, but I never pointed at Darden alumni. If you think you deserve a better school, please don't be hung up on Darden. Otherwise, it's your call, like what Gobeyond said. I am here to help you make a more informed decision and hope everything turns out right for everyone.

yorkzhong

以下是引用火箭在2006-12-11 8:27:00的发言：

Dear people, I am bashing my own school to help you.
        

太感动了，啥也不说了，眼泪哗哗的流啊，借用一句台词与楼主共勉：

“一个在外漂泊多年的游子，毫无利己的动机，忍痛将自己母校踩在脚下，把所有中国MBA申请人的事业当作他自己的事业，这是什么精神？这是国际主义精神...”

这是一种我佛大无畏的精神 - 我不入地狱，谁入地狱？

yorkzhong

To citigroup，我的英文不好，所以就不班门弄那个斧了。每个人关于学校都有自己的看法和观点 - 无可厚非。但是，“客观”的评价是最可贵的。要说Darden还不是超一流的学校，我承认。要说Darden在UVA里是比较差的一个program - 我一万个不同意。我们班级就有很多UVA undergraduate 毕业的学生 - 难道他们都没有判断力？

我觉得说来说去意义并不是很大，为什么不拿一些硬的数字来说话呢？

Darden 2005 年毕业学生86%在毕业前收到offer, 97%在毕业后3个月收到offer。  相比之下某一"top 10"在2006年84%在毕业前收到offer, 91%在毕业3个月后受到offer. 毕业起薪和sign on bonus大家差不多Darden 略高。当然用2005数据和2006比会有偏差但Darden2006的数据只会更好！

说到底，我始终不觉得你是在客观的评价学校。如果按照您的逻辑，那么除了H/S/W之外，没有哪个学校值得去了。可惜这几个学校每年加起来只招2000人左右。每年申请的人呢？ 我觉得光大陆报考的就不止2000人。那么您是否觉得这些人都在白费精力和金钱呢？

这几天考试，没有太多时间上来胡扯， 但我还有最后一句话想问：您最后被哪所超一流B-school 录取了？说出来让我们佩服一下。

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-12-12 4:51:28编辑过]

citigroupztc

Dear YorkZhong

To answer your questions:

1) Darden 2005 年毕业学生86%在毕业前收到offer, 97%在毕业后3个月收到offer。  相比之下某一"top
10"在2006年84%在毕业前收到offer, 91%在毕业3个月后受到offer. 毕业起薪和sign on
bonus大家差不多Darden 略高。当然用2005数据和2006比会有偏差但Darden2006的数据只会更好！

    A: Dear York. Are you trying to say that in terms of job placement, Darden is better than M7? You should at least know that UVa is in a very different recruiting class from the M7's. Top companies do recruit at Darden, but not heavily. That means they have a very very tight quota on how many Darden MBAs they will take each year while they don't have any for M7. I am fully aware of the fact that UVa has a stunning placement rate of 97%. However, you should know that quite few of the 97% students who got placed are going to top companies. While at most M7, 10% of their MBA classes got placed into either McKinsey or Goldman. As for Darden, although they never announced actually how many MBAs are heading to companies like McKinsey or Goldman, or any other companies, I believe quite few. If you could let us know about how many people are going to top companies like McKinsey, BCG, Bain, Goldman, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, etc. That will be great. Please don't tell me that Darden listed those companies I mentioned above as top recuriters. That means nothing to us because you could have 2 people recruited by Goldman and that's the largest number of hires by any company that year. I demand the hard statistics, if I may.

2) 说到底，我始终不觉得你是在客观的评价学校。如果按照您的逻辑，那么除了H/S/W之外，没有哪个学校值得去了。可惜这几个学校每年加起来只招2000人左右。每年申请的人呢？ 我觉得光大陆报考的就不止2000人。那么您是否觉得这些人都在白费精力和金钱呢？

    A: For Chinese applicants who really want to make a difference, YES, only M7 are worth going to. I am not saying if you go to schools that are not M7 then you are not going to be successful in your professional career. My point is, your life will be much easier if you go to M7. Not only M7 offer the best in class business education, but also they provide you with prestigious and strong alumni network that you can rely on for the rest of your lives. It's not that hard to understand, if you go to M7, most of your friends are from M7; while if you go to Darden, most of your friends are from second-tier business programs. If you say that you do not feel less about yourself in a room full of M7 graduates, you are cheating yourself. People, you are paying 150K+ of yours or your loved ones' savings for a shot at the world's best companies to make yourself and your faimly proud for the rest of your life. Please treasure the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and get into the best ones you could. Don't let those people who have already decided wrong on their lives tell you what to do. Trust yourself and you will not regret.

3) 但我还有最后一句话想问：您最后被哪所超一流B-school 录取了？说出来让我们佩服一下。

    A: I just graduated from college and I currently do not have any plan to attend any MBA program. But if you get placed into IB or MC a year from now, please let me know. I will be more than happy to treat you a nice dinner in NYC. No kidding.

Thanks for your postings, York, and good luck!

numero

进M7前途未必就个个光明. 我在Wharton的中国同学工作也不好找, 本来MC AND IB背景的人太多了. 而且这里有几家entering class就几百上千人, dunno how much networking u can do. To natives, maybe, to int, depends.

At the end of the day, a strong name definitly will not hurt, but 个人本身的能力机遇还是比较重要的.

wargame

以下是引用citigroupztc在2006-12-20 15:45:00的发言：
A: For Chinese applicants who really want to make a difference, YES, only M7 are worth going to.

极端了， 极端了。 这个东西， 个人目标不一样。 您在美国的， 可能确实看着只有M7值得去， 咱们不在美国的， 去转一圈儿也是个人生经历。

要都这么说， 我看UVA本科也没啥子念的， 要去就去IVY， STANFORD， MIT。。。 

另外， 要是有俩OFFER， 一个DARDEN， 一个M7， 100个中国申请者里， 估计得有98个选M7， 您说M7值得去， 不是跟没说一样么， 敢情就为教育剩下那俩放着M7不去非去DARDEN的啊。 M7谁都想进， 进不了就不读啦？ 咱们不就是图个上进么， 读了也许确实上进不了， 不读了， 那不更没法追求进步了。 一般情况下， 今年进不了M7， 等两年， 更困难， 年纪也大了， 老婆也有了， 上不上都是个问题。  

您还是年轻， 跟大家分享一下您的体会， 您的苦心大家心领了， 不过确实是各人有各人的情况， 说得太绝对了也是用处不大了。  

citigroupztc

Please always remember. You are paying 150K USD (=1,200K RMB), and infinitely worse, 2 years of your life. Just think really hard about it before making any decision. If you think you want to pay that kind of money and your life for some so-so MBA, do it. I will not and cannot stop you. But the stake is on you. If you go to M7, there's a chance that you will not land your dream job in the U.S. But if you look at opportunities in Asia. Top companies are just crazy for your degree because you went to the prestigious M7. Let's be realistic. In Asia, especially in China, people respect your degree more than you as a person. If you graduate from Darden, people will not give as much respect as they do if you were a M7 graduate. Besides, doing an MBA is not the only way to get ahead in life. With 150K USD, I think you can think of a better use than doing a so-so MBA. Maybe starting your own business, maybe something else. It's up to you.

lhc

这个讨论有点无聊了，萝卜青菜各有所好，不要用自己的标准来衡量别人。你认为是毒药，别人甘之如饴。每个人都有发表自己意见的权利，但是这讨论结果有什么意义？爱DARDEN的人依旧会爱，看不上的人依旧看不上。

各位前辈，体现一点胸怀...

宝宝和贝贝

本来我也很少参加各种帖子的争论，但是的确想在这个帖子说几句。不想和谁争论学校得好坏，没有体会，不敢说，我始终相信牛校有牛的地方和道理。但是归结到个人，我想是否尊重一个人还是看能力和人品的，而不是哪里毕业的。每个人的机会运气能力和发展都不一样，harvard, stanford也好，清华北大也罢，光环不能照亮一辈子的前程，这个世界也不是被top school得人左右的。相反，如果一个人从最top得学校出来反而performance一般的话，只有更加被鄙视，因为他浪费了更好的资源。

觉得哪个学校牛，就自己去，觉得人家差，就不去好了。谁也没逼着谁，但是没必要以自己的观点去评价任何一个学校，这是不道德，也是缺乏公信力的。即使要评判，我想已经有很多专业或者非专业的机构去评判了，每个人都能看得到。

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-12-20 18:23:28编辑过]