About Darden

dukesongyi

What's a joke.  UVA undergrad put negative comments on Darden, the best grad program in UVA. 

1.  How much you know about grad program?

2.  How much you know about MBA?

3.  How much you know about Darden community?

These 3 questions are good enough for challenging your comments.  I even don't want to touch some points, such as percentage vs absolute number, size of alumni vs degree of close binding, and current ranking vs reputation.

Leo2

Not to start a pissing match, but I think the overly-defensive (even rude) responses from sisu1996, bluesyy, and dukesongyi reflect poorly on Darden. Now before I get any angry responses, I'd like to state that I am a UVA alumnus and I have already applied to Darden in R1. That being said, I am not blind to the fact that Darden has its problems and I think citigroupztc did a good job outlining them. Nothing that he posts is really disputable; indeed Darden's admit rate was around 50 last year with roughly a 40% yield, its rankings have been either idle or declining, I've personally heard the Dean joke about the falling rankings, and teaching exclusively using case studies does have its problems. However, instead of refuting citigroupztc's points you people simply ridicule him. How mature....

yorkzhong

以下是引用Leo2在2006-12-5 2:51:00的发言：

Not to start a pissing match, but I think the overly-defensive (even rude) responses from sisu1996, bluesyy, and dukesongyi reflect poorly on Darden. Now before I get any angry responses, I'd like to state that I am a UVA alumnus and I have already applied to Darden in R1. That being said, I am not blind to the fact that Darden has its problems and I think citigroupztc did a good job outlining them. Nothing that he posts is really disputable; indeed Darden's admit rate was around 50 last year with roughly a 40% yield, its rankings have been either idle or declining, I've personally heard the Dean joke about the falling rankings, and teaching exclusively using case studies does have its problems. However, instead of refuting citigroupztc's points you people simply ridicule him. How mature....

Well - I think everyone in Darden welcome any honest and fair discussion. But as part of Darden no one likes the mother school being bad mouthed in such a unfair way...especially it came out from someone who claimed to be part of UVA. It's just like that no one is expected to bad mouth his/her mother country when he/she is in US.

let me try to address some of your points and probably some from citigroupztc:

1 - admissional rate and yield rate: you will find this year there would be a HUGE improvement on this since the # of applications of Darden increased by about 70% or 80% in the first round.

2 - ranking: Ranking is important, no one disagree with that. But how important is it? We must take a overall look on it, not just judge the quality of school purely by ranking. For example, for a student, will you care too much about # of research posted by professors?, average GMAT score of your classmates (all above are important factors for ranking)? Or do you care more about the teaching quality, job offering, and starting salarary. Let's just pick the research done by faculty. Darden is not good at this, but it has nothing to do with your experience in Darden right? Why would you want a professor who focus on research but not spending much of his/her energy to improve the teaching quality, which really matters to you?

I will discuss ranking in more detail in next post.

3 - case mothod: every method has it pros and cons, I can only say that I love case method much more than the letucture method, at least I don't have to fall in sleep in the class. Also i disagree with citygroup's assertation that the quality of Darden students are not as good. you can not make that assumption just by reading the admission and yield number, you have to talk and work with those people, and then make informed judgement.

4 - English, I guess probably citygroup was talking about me since I am the one who posted the most about Darden in CD . I admit my English is not perfect, but how important is that to me and to my classmate? not too much I think. As long as my English is good enough to participate the class discussion and to have meanful social conversation, I think it's fine. At the end of the day, we are studying business, not English in B-school.

Again - welcome any fair discussion.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-12-5 5:07:39编辑过]

yorkzhong

RANK	SCHOOL	2004 RANK	CORP.	GRAD.	INTELLECT. Capital	Annual Tuition	Applicants accepted	WOMEN	INT'L
15	Virginia (Darden)	12	14	6	35	41,000	41	21	27

Bitmap           MINORITIES	Bitmap           PRE-MBA	Bitmap           POST-MBA	Bitmap           RESPONDENTS W/Offer by	Bitmap           AVG. WORK	Bitmap           COMMUNICATION	Bitmap           TEAMWORK	Bitmap           ANALYTIC	Bitmap           TEACHING Quality	Bitmap           CAREER Service
7	62	95	96.3	61	A+	A+	A	A+	A+

If we take a detail look at BW Darden ranking, I would say that most factors that I really care are still great - those I highligted in green! Especially the response from employeer about communication skill, teamwork and analytical skill, Darden got two A+ and one A in this area, if you look at many schools whose ranking is higher than Darden, you can see that many school are not as good.

All that being said, I believe with doing some jobs to improve those nubers like intellectal captial(how many report did Darden published), applicants accepted(which will definately be very low this year), and some jobs to recurite more women and international, Darden's ranking can be improved easily - haha, not saying Dean's job is easy as that, but you get what I mean.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-12-5 5:11:36编辑过]

gobeyond

I'm not a Darden Alumni, and I have no offense to either part of you guys. I just want to say that Darden, as any other schools, must have its strength and weakness. We need to look at it rationally.

1. Ranking. People who go to MBA programs care about it simply because it gives the sense that how good the program is. Ranking is from a relative comparison. I don't think anyone should take it so serious as long as the rank really gives you the sense which tier the program belongs to. One should dig more on the details of the program, such as the placement, the teaching quality, the strength of the program, etc. to find a better fit for him/herself.

It's weird that the Dean said something carelessly about ranking in public. I think all B-school Deans are business men. They know marketing very well, and they know what to do with rankings, especially for MBA program.

2. Case study method. I do like the case study method, because it's more interactive and interesting. I can learn from the professor and from my peer. Meanwhile, in order to communicate with each other in a more effective way, I can improve my communication skill by practicing more, which is usually not common in traditional lectures . However,it's hard to say whether Darden's case-method-only teaching is the best way to learn for everyone. It's obvious that how much you can take away from the case study method heavily depends on how good your peers are. This method may not fit everyone or every course. Take me as an example, I probably will like a 50% case combined with 50% lecture method,or so.

3. Professors. The publication is one of the indicators to know the professors. I think, as PhDs, they should not only be good at teaching, but also need to show their qualification in their specialized field. It's my rule to judge a good professor. I think any good B-schools don't want to be considered only teaching schools.

4. English. Generally speaking, I think Darden's students have good written English skill. At least from my observation, although I didn't meet too many Darden students, Yorkzhong, and tother Darden alumni or current students are all good at expressing themselves in English. ( much better than me). I don't think it's fair to compare Darden and Wharton in this way. Wharton has a much better overall ranking, which is indisputable. So let Darden be Darden, and give it the credit it deserves.

leapon

给人家挑语法错误,是有点过了.

yorkzhong

以下是引用gobeyond在2006-12-5 6:02:00的发言：

3. Professors. The publication is one of the indicators to know the professors. I think, as PhDs, they should not only be good at teaching, but also need to show their qualification in their specialized field. It's my rule to judge a good professor. I think any good B-schools don't want to be considered only teaching schools.

Thanks for your encouragement on my English which made me feel much more confident about my poor English

For research, actually Darden is changing much. Dean Bob recuried eight young professors in recent two years from other schools and plans to do more, only because these new guys are young and eager to do some research. But, the effect can only be shown in next round ranking...

But to be honest, I still prefer those elder professors even if they didn't have any paper published. All I can say that those experienced Darden professor are so GREAT in teaching..., and after you experienced something "great", "good" is not enough for you. All that being said, I believe that these new faculties can catch up on teaching very quickly too, given the traditional emphasize on teaching quality of Darden.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-12-5 11:34:05编辑过]

gobeyond

以下是引用yorkzhong在2006-12-5 11:29:00的发言：

Thanks for your encouragement on my English which made me feel much more confident about my poor English

For research, actually Darden is changing much. Dean Bob recuried eight young professors in recent two years from other schools and plans to do more, only because these new guys are young and eager to do some research. But, the effect can only be shown in next round ranking...

But to be honest, I still prefer those elder professors even if they didn't have any paper published. All I can say that those experienced Darden professor are so GREAT in teaching..., and after you experienced something "great", "good" is not enough for you. All that being said, I believe that these new faculties can catch up on teaching very quickly too, given the traditional emphasize on teaching quality of Darden.

Yeah! Glad to know that. To be honest, I think Darden students, especially York, are very friendly and warm-hearted. My questions on Darden thread have always been answered in a timely manner with meaningful informaition.

小绒球

以下是引用yorkzhong在2006-12-5 11:29:00的发言：

Thanks for your encouragement on my English which made me feel much more confident about my poor English

For research, actually Darden is changing much. Dean Bob recuried eight young professors in recent two years from other schools and plans to do more, only because these new guys are young and eager to do some research. But, the effect can only be shown in next round ranking...

But to be honest, I still prefer those elder professors even if they didn't have any paper published. All I can say that those experienced Darden professor are so GREAT in teaching..., and after you experienced something "great", "good" is not enough for you. All that being said, I believe that these new faculties can catch up on teaching very quickly too, given the traditional emphasize on teaching quality of Darden.

小妹不才，没看出你想论证什么。

Darden招年轻教授，"only because"年轻教授喜欢research。怎么看像是开养牛的。苏格兰奶牛产奶多，我们多养点。一个商学院的研究靠招几个年轻教授能起色，简直就是笑话。

商学院的教授每年教个几门课。一个term才2个多月，剩下的时间出不了research，真不知道在干嘛。phd毕业生们与其在top10里拼死拼活争取tenure，还不如去darden养老去。

世界上没有绝对的good和great。没有参照系，重复的good,great根本就没有意义。

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-12-5 14:16:52编辑过]

pengpengming

Citigroupztc, 

You have your point. Unfortunately, you raised it in a very offensive way.
   

I can hardly imagine a prospective MBA student having such questionable communication(or debating) skills.  Not to offense you, I strongly suggest you to take the course of “Management Communication” once you get in HBS, or Wharton, whatever.  I bet you can benefit a lot from this course.  Other than self-confidence, interpersonal intelligence is another key to success, especially to your post-MBA success over the long haul.  

Well, at the very least, I agree that students should be cautious in choosing their “best fit” MBA school.  Make sure to ponder over all the pros and cons about the program.  Darden is a school that has a very distinctive culture and set of values. It’s definitely not for everyone.

Good luck, anyway!

PS: This is one of the very rare occasions that I could see so many Darden Chinese Alumni speaking out in a public forum.  Like our school, we’re used to be low-key, yet high-profile.  So, thanks for bringing the opportunity for us to show up and make a "noise" about Darden.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-12-5 15:20:18编辑过]