Kellogg vs Wharton. Jessicaf, thank you.

jessicaf

以下是引用chenliu2004在2006-3-24 17:51:00的发言：

To Jessica,人家Kenn同学也是好心好意希望得到你的意见,你却作出这样这样酸不溜秋的评论。

什么叫wharton一把把，然后中国校友那个多阿的语气，我想Kenn同学看完这句话会在想：我原来把Alumni Network纳入考虑的因素错了吗？

你是要帮助一个CDer,还是只是"enjoy" 你自己的"Shining"here 啊？

Kenn同学已经表示了感谢，我也是好心，别人问啥，就都说一下。alumni network难道不是LZ的考虑因素吗？

贵校的中国校友多，不是一直是贵校标榜的一大advantage吗？我说你们校友多，说错了吗？敢问top 10里面有哪个学校在中国的校友人数敢跟贵校一争高下？你觉得我提出这一点，作为他考虑的因素之一，有什么不可告人的目的吗？

是人家点名要我回答的，正好我最近有空，这个和enjoy或者shining有什么关系？我就是不懂，我说贵校校友在中国及其多，又触了你什么神经了？

eeyupyup

Wharton is by far the most internationalized school i know. It's based on my observation in the reception sessions i atteneded. Dont know how that fits into your equation.

Getting into IBD shall not be too hard either at k or at w. However, i ve heard that some boutique, pe, hedge only hire from h/w/s.

Kenn

以下是引用redsoxfan在2006-3-24 12:45:00的发言：

#1, agree with your analysis => advantage kellogg

I thought nobody is gonna think this way besides me, but you did. I didn't realize it either until someone told me this hidden secret using his own live experience. However the precondition of the reasoning is that Banks do have quota for each school like Sunclot mentioned.. otherwise it's meaningless.

#2, location absoluately not an issue for campus recruiting opportunities => equal

Yup, that's exactly what I meant. Speaking of location, no school can compete with Columbia and NYU. NYC is like the destiny for nearly all sorts of vocations, chef, bussiness men, artists, etc... And we cannot look down on schools there solely by saying they are nothing if they were at other places. some advantages are inborn, we cannot make comparisions while supposing they don't have them. Just like we should be saying Yao ming is nothing if he were not that tall. Come on, he is really that tall!

#3, never been to philly and the wharton campus, but kellog campus is gorgeous => advantage kellogg

Yeah. teamwork, beautiful campus are always the selling points of Kellogg. I suppose why they can a relatively non-competitive eniroment is because majority of student body are consultants, whose company are normally paying for their employee's MBA education, especially M, BCG, Bain. So at least they are secured with a top consulting firm offer and don't have to strech all out.

#4, alumni base is important not only for getting an offer but also your advancement within the firm and exit options => i'm not in IB so cannot really tell but the hunch is wharton gets an edge here given its reputation

what kind of job you are doing now, Mind share a LITTLE bit with me? like industry and location. Thanks

#5, a big but close-knit chinese community makes the two years at school that much more enjoyable and offers more networking opportunities years after graduation => no idea about the chinese communities in the two schools so cannot judge

Like your style, very helpful, very down-to-earth, stick to facts. Wharton's chinise community is defenitely bigger, but which one is more close-knit?  Does the chinese community here also include students from other program in the business school or even other schools, like law, music, jounalism.. LIfe quality is important to me as I mentioned before and I really enjoy making friends with different talents.

Kenn

以下是引用eeyupyup在2006-3-25 2:31:00的发言：

Wharton is by far the most internationalized school i know. It's based on my observation in the reception sessions i atteneded. Dont know how that fits into your equation.

Getting into IBD shall not be too hard either at k or at w. However, i ve heard that some boutique, pe, hedge only hire from h/w/s.

Thanks for your imformation. I understand somewhat about private equity, hedge funds, but not much about boutique. Could you please give some hints?  and do you think it's practically possible for me to get buy-side job even without sell side background? By the way, I have been auditor for years. Why I am asking is that I heard that most buy side positions tend to hire IBers because they believe bankers at least understand capical markets and would leave the accounting analysis with researchers or simply buy analysis reports from outside independent researching companies.

eeyupyup

以下是引用Kenn在2006-3-25 2:34:00的发言：

以下是引用redsoxfan在2006-3-24 12:45:00的发言：

#1, agree with your analysis => advantage kellogg

I thought nobody is gonna think this way besides me, but you did. I didn't realize it either until someone told me this hidden secret using his own live experience. However the precondition of the reasoning is that Banks do have quota for each school like Sunclot mentioned.. otherwise it's meaningless.

#2, location absoluately not an issue for campus recruiting opportunities => equal

Yup, that's exactly what I meant. Speaking of location, no school can compete with Columbia and NYU. NYC is like the destiny for nearly all sorts of vocations, chef, bussiness men, artists, etc... And we cannot look down on schools there solely by saying they are nothing if they were at other places. some advantages are inborn, we cannot make comparisions while supposing they don't have them. Just like we should be saying Yao ming is nothing if he were not that tall. Come on, he is really that tall!

#3, never been to philly and the wharton campus, but kellog campus is gorgeous => advantage kellogg

Yeah. teamwork, beautiful campus are always the selling points of Kellogg. I suppose why they can a relatively non-competitive eniroment is because majority of student body are consultants, whose company are normally paying for their employee's MBA education, especially M, BCG, Bain. So at least they are secured with a top consulting firm offer and don't have to strech all out.

#4, alumni base is important not only for getting an offer but also your advancement within the firm and exit options => i'm not in IB so cannot really tell but the hunch is wharton gets an edge here given its reputation

what kind of job you are doing now, Mind share a LITTLE bit with me? like industry and location. Thanks

#5, a big but close-knit chinese community makes the two years at school that much more enjoyable and offers more networking opportunities years after graduation => no idea about the chinese communities in the two schools so cannot judge

Like your style, very helpful, very down-to-earth, stick to facts. Wharton's chinise community is defenitely bigger, but which one is more close-knit?  Does the chinese community here also include students from other program in the business school or even other schools, like law, music, jounalism.. LIfe quality is important to me as I mentioned before and I really enjoy making friends with different talents.

I am not a student of either k or w. but on CD, wharton SEEMS to be more close knited than kellogg. Whether it really is,  i cant make any judgement.

Talent wise, I believe you will find unique talents everywhere. assuming those talents are equally accessable in both schools, i might just call it a tie.

eeyupyup

以下是引用Kenn在2006-3-25 2:47:00的发言：

Thanks for your imformation. I understand somewhat about private equity, hedge funds, but not much about boutique. Could you please give some hints?  and do you think it's practically possible for me to get buy-side job even without sell side background? By the way, I have been auditor for years. Why I am asking is that I heard that most buy side positions tend to hire IBers because they believe bankers at least understand capical markets and would leave the accounting analysis with researchers or simply buy analysis reports from outside independent researching companies.

some boutique firms focus on some specific area that rquire specific knowledge that K might not be able to offer. You might have more class options at wharton that you can utilize for those firms.

I dont have any banking background. I can only tell you the surface. If you wanna know more about their differences, you can start a post on BW. many veterans there might be able to give you more useful information. You might also wanna follow ALEX's post. He is a wharton grad, and he seems to know alot bout difference careers.

oh.. congrats for your offers!! it is awesome!!!!

Kenn

以下是引用suncola在2006-3-24 13:40:00的发言：

All in All, if you are 100% sure that you want IBD, I don't see any reason to go to K.

1. style. trying to land a finance job in a consulting school is much easier than in a finance school, because all the top financial institutions did campus recruiting, which means the same opportunities but much less competitors. I got this point from a Kellogg alumni, who I can tell is VERY down-to-earth and who got 3 top IB offers in 2002 as we all know is the worst year for IBers ever.

If you have any professional service background, e.g. finance/accountig/auditing/consulting, you are 90% ensured for an interview for IBD as long as you are in a decent school and your resume does not have stupid mistakes. If not, please do go to W if you really wanna IBD. Reasons: 1) As far as I know, course design and interview training in K are diff from in W. Ppl in top non-finance schools without any previous finance/professional experience are not secured with interviews/offers in IB. W is able to turn you into a finance type person no matter what you did before, as least in perceptions from banks.  In K, I am not sure you can have the same handy training and exposure in financial industry. 2) W/Chi/Col students have more chances to get into IBD.  Most IBDs in top tier IBs, say gs/ms/ml/lm/ubs/cs/db/jpm/citi, will do campus recruiting in most top schools. But many boutiques only do in several selected schools. W/Chi/Col are must-gos for them. 3) If you get into a top bank, you'll still see much more ppl from W/Chi/Col there, which is apparently an advantage in networking for them. As ppl know, IB is all about relationship and networking. And you might be one of the few K guys there.

Thanks. yes I have been auditors for years. Glad to know that

2. location, while I don't think Phili is not that bad in terms of job landing given almost all the students in both schools don't have to go to wall street in person, especially in the first and second round interview. Maybe in final round those banks will fly candidates over the wall street, so location doesn't seem to make any difference for me.

Agree.  Location seems indifferent in your reasoning above, though I think it does mean sth.

yeah, when speaking of big name IBs, school location makes no diff. well when talking about some middle or small sized financial institutions, NYC rocks, right?

3 campus life, I have to say I place particular importance on it because study there is also living there. I do hope to have enjoyable life experience over the 2 years between two sell-my-soul working experiences back and forth.

Chicago may have more to play with while Wharton is close to many famous tour sites, too. (boston/big apple/florida...) And clearly east and west coasts are the most developed areas in the States. Really depends on your own plan.  

thanks, you are right it depends on myself and I have made my points of credits for both of them.

4 alumni, Wharton is THE school no other one can compete. I don't know how much it's gonna mean to me. Can any post MBA here shed some lights?

100% agree. HBS alum network is also great but alums seem more pushy. Once they feel you are in not their league, say not excellent/hardworking enough, they tend to leave you behind. I sort of feel that wharton alums are more willing to give you hands when you are in difficulties. Just personal feelings. How to use alum network is hard to say. It might work at the time you never expect.

talk about this tomorrow.

5 the number of Chinese students is another huge difference between this two schools. Does that mean anything to me?

Don't think it really matters.  Job hunting largely depends on your pervious w/e and interviews. For banks in HK, I don't think banks put quota on Chinese for each school as b schools do.  They release interviews to all schools at the same time. For banks in the states, it is true that banks have quota on each school. In that case you are competing with all of your classmates, not your Chinese peers only. It sounds weird that banks tend to recruit 20 Wharton Chinese, 10 Chicago Chinese and 5 Columbia Chinese. Just don't see a reason. In term of community, as you are a Chinese, you have plenty of opportunities to join Chinese community.  Chinese in b schools are a big community. I am in Col. Welcome to join Col's Chinese community if you feel lonely in K.

I would love to, wherever I go finnally.  I met an Col MBA girls the other day. she is pretty but kinda unavailable...   

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-3-25 11:16:57编辑过]

eeyupyup

以下是引用Kenn在2006-3-25 3:10:00的发言：
I would love to, wherever I go finnally.  I met an Col MBA girls the other day. she is pretty but kinda unavailable...

i love topics regarding girls.. haha... hands down KELLOGG has the best looking girls... again, based on my observation during informaiton session. whether kellogg does this on purpose, i have no idea.

kinda unavailble, wat do you mean?? just turn her on and make her available dude.. hahah

off topic.. sorrie...

suncola

以下是引用Kenn在2006-3-25 3:10:00的发言：

yeah, when speaking of big name IBs, school location makes no diff. well when talking about some middle or small sized financial institutions, NYC rocks, right?

Few Col Chinese girls are available. Hope it is not bad news for you.

Col attracts middle and small sized firms not because it is in NYC but of its reputation in finance. In job hunting of those firms, W/Chi can give you the same position that Col has, though they are not in NYC.

NYC advantage is to help you crack the interview. As all ppl in B schools know, IB interview is more about chemistry building: you need to make your interviewer love you, sort of like flirting around in bars. No one doubts your capabilities if you pass resume screening: great w/e shows your past experience and skills; a great school shows your ambition. What a resume can't tell is what you want to show in interview: your commitment to this career and this company, and that you can fit into the company's style. Then how? As you don't have any IB experience, networking is extremely important to let you sense how those ppl live/work in IB environment, no matter you are in K or W. NYC can give you a hand in this respect.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-3-25 8:59:51编辑过]