在bw看到的，真气人，某跟贴的ABC更可气

gonghao

there is something you should notice we are talking a problem which can be discribed as follows:

A student from a corner of the world saw some JJ on a webside which released by somebody else in this world before he/she attend the test.

如果我没理解错的话，上述的人被你们认为是cheator。

按照你们的所说的推断：Because you sign your name on the test paper ,and you should obey the rules on the paper.

Please notice the student I discribe has not attended the test yet.Of course not sign his/her name on the paper also because they are not  testing at that moment.After take the test ,they would be called cheator because ETS give them the same question not only without any changing which they read it before also they don't want to meet.

In this procedure,no student reproduce any part of the test in any format/medium, in the test procedure no one do any cheat behaviour.They do not break any rules made by ETS.

But why they would be called cheator by ETS also by you just because they read the  subject before the test which had been test by many times without any changing.

They are innocent in the whole procedure but called cheator by ETS and you.

I'm fighting for that.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-2-16 12:20:27编辑过]

leighyao

OK, you did raise a good defense here; however...

1,It is true that the responsibility of disclosing JJ more lies on the ones who disclose them.

2,If you study law, there is a concept of "Good Faith". If you know the wrongdoing (Obviously virtually everyone knows the test rule of GMAT) and do it, you are bound there.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-2-16 12:36:22编辑过]

Sachem

No good faith in China.

gonghao

参加月底考试的学生们，没有、也不该被扣上、甚至如之前一位兄台已经自己认为自己是在cheating的帽子

1.在考试前看到了已经考过的真题（即JJ）无论是有意还是无意，都不该因此就认之为cheating。因为学生们虽然看到了过去的真题，但不知道他们面临的那次考试是否会遇上与之一样的题目，即考试前并不预知考题

2.由于ETS几十年如一日的使用几乎相同的考题考察学生，实践发现了考题的重复性，出于尽可能把握考试动向及考试脉搏和难度的目的，JJ出现了，但此过程中，同学们依然不知道他们下此面临的考试中是否真的会遇上他们之前在JJ中做到过的考题

3.在考试中考生签下大名，保证reproduce any part of the test in any format/medium，在这时，考生虽看了JJ但还是不知道题目是什么

4.经过一场拼搏，考生们晕头转向的从考场里出来，被告知：“you are cheator"

5.原因是，考生的考题里有部分是“旧题重考”，而你之所以全部答对，是因为你看了JJ，所以你是CHEATOR

6.引述leighyao的“ If you know the wrongdoing (Obviously virtually everyone knows the test rule of GMAT) and do it, you are bound there”考生不知道题目是什么，何来的wrongdoing？wrongdoing在下述情况下成立：即考生考前得到消息，考题就是上次的题目一字也不差，然后大家去准备，考出了好成绩。这是wrongdoing。

但在除非ETS告诉某考生以外的情况中，哪位敢说我肯定JJ中的题目将必定出现在下次考试中且一字不差？没有！既然没有这个前提，则每个认都按照自己的理解和方式去准备下次不知具体考试内容的GMAT,有人相信JJ就是将要考的题目，有人觉的不可能，但都是猜测啊，没有涉及到盗取考试内容啊，何来的cheating既然有人觉的可信，有人觉的不可信

考生：

1.从头到尾均不知考题是什么（对题目而言考生是BLINDER）

2.在考试过程中无任何作弊行为（偷看啊，抄袭啊，得到非法的帮助啊等等）

3.无reproduce any part of the test in any format/medium行为

WHY THEY BECOME CHEATOR AFTER TEST???

IT'S UNFAIR

gonghao

there is good faith in China of course

Just because ETS repeat the same test subjects which tested before for many times throughout the world.

before the test students do not known what subjects will be tested.Under this condition,after test they are called cheator by ETS or some guys in US .It's definitly unfair.

leighyao

同学们依然不知道他们下此面临的考试中是否真的会遇上他们之前在JJ中做到过的考题-- ask those guys who are actively seeking JJ what  their true motivation is. No thief can 100% know he can find money before he sneaks into the target house.This is not a good analogy.  Once again, I don't intend to call those guys cheators. I only think such an action is against the ethics. If you have been against it, it is better to admit it.

在这时，考生虽看了JJ但还是不知道题目是什么 -- virtually everyone knows there is a high possibility to see some questions he reads before. Because of the nature of the questions, no one can remember Verbal JJ very completely. Please read some threads regarding math.

被告知：“you are cheator" -- as long as he doesn't disclose, it is OK. Well, according to the concept of Good Faith,  as long as he hasn't read JJ, it is OK as well.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-2-16 13:40:53编辑过]

Sachem

The students are cheators because they intentionally collect info that they know are illegally leaked out and act on it to take advantage.

Not an exact comparison but:
If you trade stock on insider info (illegally), you will end up in jail like Martha S.  If you intentionally collect insider info, you will get bigger troubles, like Bud Fox in "Wall Street".

Don't worry, ETS won't put anyone in jail.  But don't think you do the same everywhere without getting into big troubles.

jameswin

以下是引用一件坎肩在2006-2-15 22:41:00的发言：

最近比较喜欢豁出去说话。

两个小偷一起去偷东西被警察发现了，一个向左跑，一个向右跑，警察抓住了前者，被抓的很生气，说：你丫TMD有病，他也在偷，评什么只抓我？我要去告你歧视我们家乡人！

还有，请不要侮辱TEAM这个词，好么？

团结互助才是强大的源泉。这个世界是达尔文的。明白吗？

权利是要争取的。民主和文明只是野蛮身上的外衣。

别提起老美就隐私，公正，人权的。

几百年前他们发家的时候，比你这个人的要肮脏的多。

在任何时候，帮助自己的同胞都不会是过错，特别是对本国人而言。

照你的说法，钱学森一到大陆就应该被枪毙了。

因为他NAD

wenzhang

以下是引用IDAISY在2006-2-14 17:58:00的发言：

In China, GMAT Cheaters May Prosper

Some Chinese B-school candidates' studying methods are less than aboveboard as they struggle to avoid poverty by securing spots at top universities

With the score he received on the Graduate Management Admissions Test (GMAT), the 21-year-old finance student at Shanghai's Fudan University easily could have been admitted to a top-ten U.S. B-school. He scored 650 out of a possible 800 points -- a score that's 58 points above the Chinese national average, but one he considers so low that it nearly brings him to tears. So he hit the books this summer, studying several hours a day to prepare for a second shot at the exam. He also did something a lot of would-be MBAs in China are doing these days: He peeked at the test.

这么多破绽，真是低估MBA圈的人。哪个牛人仅凭GMAT高分就进TOP 10的？

jameswin

这种小问题都能导致一堆中国人起内讧。吵个不停的。

羞愧吧，你们？

有时间多学点东西，充实自己点。

考商学院的各位大牛，商业社会就是充满trick的，只要不违法。你什么都可以干。

过多的涉及伦理和道德并无必要， 你又不是孔夫子的徒弟。

儒教误国5000年，留毒还在你们身上体现。

翻遍全球5000年历史，看到的只有野蛮和强权两个字。

国人内斗内行，外斗外行的毛病还是没改

K  A O