法律 or 会计? 还是决定读会计了！

Irena

除非决定铁下心,花掉5-7年的青春(考LSAT,申请,三年JD,加上2-4年的FIRM 工作还贷款),不然还是别读JD.

funnytiger

interesting, why JD is risky for female? we have more female than male in law school. what happen to them?

Irena

maybe it's true at Boalt

Irena

The reason I think females should think more carefully about law school is mostly for lifestyle reasons.

A girl in her 20's, does she truly think she want to work 80 hours a week after getting a JD and paying off 100k in debts? I am sure some girls do. But it is an individual decision that only she can decide. And in general, guys are more ambitious and more driven by career and money than girls.

Females do get good jobs like the males. Females even get better grades than males in many cases. The problem is the cost, not the benefit of the JD degree here.

lawwang

以下是引用Jed在2006-2-19 15:22:00的发言：

从就业的角度看，明显accounting好一些，在美国读一个master是不难的，至少比法律方面的学位容易。不过你以前不是学accounting，可能要多花些力气。出来找份工作的难度应该不会太大，比如进事务所，薪水虽然不算高，但也够你立足了。

从学术的角度就难说了，JD固然是辛苦昂贵，accounting的phd也是很难的，招生人数极少，非常competitive，你本科不是商科，更加困难了..

我觉得即使从学术的角度讲，JD也是很难和PhdAcc相比的，

Accounting是目前商学院PHD里面最好找工作的, 基本都是还没毕业, 就有一堆FACULTY的OFFER了, 比FINANCE的情况还要好. 而且ACCOUNTIGN和工业界的联系比较紧, FACULTY基本都有一大堆公司的活, 外快大大的。

而JD有几个能拿到教职offer？更别说中国JD了，从未听闻有成功的例子。

基本上中国学生读完JD，如果想走学术路线，只能回国了，但几乎没什么人走这条路。一个因素是没人想，投资回报太低，回中国教书，要多少年才把读美国JD的成本收回来？

另一个因素是你想也没用，JD是否是个博士学位是有争议的。虽然有个别JD回国做了教授（如许传玺），但更多的人碰壁了。至少在港台学术界，美国JD被公认为相等于LLB，不被认可为学术学位，没有资格申请教职，被承认为学术学位的只是SJD。

那么，拿SJD和PhdAcc相比如何呢？

没有JD的底子，以中国LLb为基础，到美国读完LLM和SJD后，能得到美国教职的，也从未听闻。

那么花至少7年时间读完JD＋LLM＋SJD又如何呢？

加拿大的于宁博士，来加拿大以后，从头读了完整的加拿大LLB，LLM和LLD，现在还在蒙城的唐人街做律师。美国的双博士冯象，学贯中西，先后获得耶鲁PHD和哈佛JD，最后还是不得不回到香港中文大学教书去了。

所以说，中国法学留学生，想进美国学术界，四个字：基本没戏。

退一步说，PhdAcc，读完以后不想或不能进入学术界，只要考了CPA，依然可以去做实务，进四大做公共会计，或进500强做公司会计。

而SJD毕业想留美国法律界做实务，即使考了Bar，想进华尔街律师行，或500强in－house，还是四个字：根本没戏。

funnytiger

LSAD data: 51.5% of all JD students in US are female. This is really old data, I heard it is 53% now. This is not news any more that more Female are entering the Law field.

If you really want to have a life style. Why not choose public interest? it has much lower pay but reasonable schedule. And you are contributing to a better society.

Getting into teaching is hard even for americans. Unless you are from Yale, (sorry, harvard guys), chances are not that good. If you google around, you will see tons of americans complaining about it, let alone chinese

Irena

funnytiger,

I am not arguing about the percentage of American female law students. That's a fact. I am questioning the wisdom for females directly from China to go for an American JD. What holds true for an average American woman may not be true for an average Chinese woman who tries to study in America. Cost-benefit analysis is always beneficial before making such a major decision.

Public interest certainly serves the society, but it only pays 30-35k a year. A Masters in Accounting makes more than that in most cases. But the biggest problem is that with a JD degree, you can owe up to 150-200k in debt. With a Masters in Accounting, you can get almost debt free, or at most 30-40k if you choose to go to a private school in an expensive location.

More importantly, public interst jobs usually DO NOT sponsor green card for international students. You may not be aware of that, since you will have a lucrative Big Law job.

Irena

以下是引用lawwang在2006-3-16 3:10:00的发言：

我觉得即使从学术的角度讲，JD也是很难和PhdAcc相比的，

Accounting是目前商学院PHD里面最好找工作的, 基本都是还没毕业, 就有一堆FACULTY的OFFER了, 比FINANCE的情况还要好. 而且ACCOUNTIGN和工业界的联系比较紧, FACULTY基本都有一大堆公司的活, 外快大大的。

而JD有几个能拿到教职offer？更别说中国JD了，从未听闻有成功的例子。

基本上中国学生读完JD，如果想走学术路线，只能回国了，但几乎没什么人走这条路。一个因素是没人想，投资回报太低，回中国教书，要多少年才把读美国JD的成本收回来？

另一个因素是你想也没用，JD是否是个博士学位是有争议的。虽然有个别JD回国做了教授（如许传玺），但更多的人碰壁了。至少在港台学术界，美国JD被公认为相等于LLB，不被认可为学术学位，没有资格申请教职，被承认为学术学位的只是SJD。

那么，拿SJD和PhdAcc相比如何呢？

没有JD的底子，以中国LLb为基础，到美国读完LLM和SJD后，能得到美国教职的，也从未听闻。

那么花至少7年时间读完JD＋LLM＋SJD又如何呢？

加拿大的于宁博士，来加拿大以后，从头读了完整的加拿大LLB，LLM和LLD，现在还在蒙城的唐人街做律师。美国的双博士冯象，学贯中西，先后获得耶鲁PHD和哈佛JD，最后还是不得不回到香港中文大学教书去了。

所以说，中国法学留学生，想进美国学术界，四个字：基本没戏。

退一步说，PhdAcc，读完以后不想或不能进入学术界，只要考了CPA，依然可以去做实务，进四大做公共会计，或进500强做公司会计。

而SJD毕业想留美国法律界做实务，即使考了Bar，想进华尔街律师行，或500强in－house，还是四个字：根本没戏。

Very good and informative.

funnytiger

In PI (aka public interest), there are international organizations whom look for international background. If you happen to have religious background and got a job at Christian Alliance (sorry, ACLU folks), you can even apply for special green card as a religous worker. There are so many ways to get green card.

In the school I know, there are 6 mainland chinese JD, tons of chinese LLM. In JD, 4 are females, 2 are males. Guess what, these 4 female have better grade then both male students. Besides, the english skill among chinese female is way better than chinese male. In terms of LLM, man, that is one side story (all female, I am amazed)

funnytiger

accounting at big 4 pays good, but the workload is just like big law. I am sad to see them getting only the half of what a lawyer will get but work at the same long hours.

a regular accountant pays about the same as a PI JD. most law schools have programs to reduce tuition for PI JD. several top 10 schools even cut tuition to half as long as you commit to PI for a full year after graduation. Everyone who got a big law job donates to people who will go into PI. All you need to do is to call an adcom, they usually have tons of info on PI.