Stern vs. Kellogg/Tuck for Ibanking?

fearfighter

首先祝贺这么多战友都有了好的归宿，让我们后来人也平添一份勇气。

熊弟打算申请2006年入学的MBA，我的职业目标是投行。目前选学校遇到如下问题，请教各位：

从毕业工作前景的角度，那一个选择更好：

Kellogg/Tuck/(Fuqua maybe): higer rankings, but not especially good at finance.

NYU Stern: lower ranking, but viewed as a finance school, and located in NY.

请教一下，Stern的Wall street placement 真的象所说的那么好吗？Finance school with lower ranking, or GM schools with higer reputation? this is a question.

eternalwind

想去IB自然首选WHARTON了, 然后是COLUMBIA 和NYU, CHICAGO也不错

joshuatree

以下是引用fearfighter在2005-4-4 17:00:00的发言：

首先祝贺这么多战友都有了好的归宿，让我们后来人也平添一份勇气。

熊弟打算申请2006年入学的MBA，我的职业目标是投行。目前选学校遇到如下问题，请教各位：

从毕业工作前景的角度，那一个选择更好：

Kellogg/Tuck/(Fuqua maybe): higer rankings, but not especially good at finance.

NYU Stern: lower ranking, but viewed as a finance school, and located in NY.

请教一下，Stern的Wall street placement 真的象所说的那么好吗？Finance school with lower ranking, or GM schools with higer reputation? this is a question.

To my understanding "reputation" here should not refer to how well people in this forum or around your neighborhood know a certain school but how well the top recruiters regard the school.  So logically reputation among applicants or even reputation in general management is really little relevant to IB placement.

A benchmarking info kindly for your reference: this year 3 out of 5 Stern 1st year Chinese MBAs are targeting IB for summer interns and they ALL get multiple offers from top banks under the circumstance that they are ALL career switchers.  The employers they eventually ended up at are Morgan Stanley, UBS and Merrill Lynch, respectively.  Some guy even declined Goldman Sachs' offer just for heading to buy-side.

mbacn02

I agree that NYU is a better place to learn Finance and is a place where you would be easy to network with different banks. However Kellogg carries much stronger brand name in the business world, even in the investment banking industry. My question is what type of IB work you are interested and dedicated to do. M&A/IPO, Sales and Trading or Equity Research? On the Street, IB only means M&A/IPO, though in some banks, IB division will cover all three of them. I would say if you go toward this direction, Kellogg will be a better shot, though I don’t know anybody in the past 3 years got M&A/IPO type of work in the US (major firms). Otherwise, NYU will be a better place due to its academic strength in Finance. Talking about buy side, Investment Management is a totally different industry, and it is even not a part of IB. Except if you account equity research as a buy side type of work.     

fearfighter

thanks for your constructive comments. I am heading for M&A in the banks, as it is related to my current work (Corp. Fin. in Big 4) although I like equity research very much. i can't say I am not interested in buy side but that's probably a later stage in my career path.

Stern: I love its placement report, extensive ib network and (said) job perspective, yet i am a little doubtful about Stern 1) as i heard, it's assumably the 2nd school in NY after columbia ( forgive me if I am wrong). 2) it probably carries lower international reputation than Kellogg, as I don't know if it's so easy to find a IB position in the states. rumor says it's very hard for Chinese ppl to land an IB job in the wall street, most ppl went back or to HK instead. and if this is the case, Stern may not be as competitative as others.

also I heard Tuck also place a good number of graduates to banks. and its small pool of students may get you more interview slot. and Kellogg, I can't imagine any bank not coming to kellogg to recruit. damn it's hard to decide.

joshuatree

以下是引用mbacn02在2005-4-5 6:58:00的发言：

I agree that NYU is a better place to learn Finance and is a place where you would be easy to network with different banks. However Kellogg carries much stronger brand name in the business world, even in the investment banking industry. My question is what type of IB work you are interested and dedicated to do. M&A/IPO, Sales and Trading or Equity Research? On the Street, IB only means M&A/IPO, though in some banks, IB division will cover all three of them. I would say if you go toward this direction, Kellogg will be a better shot, though I don’t know anybody in the past 3 years got M&A/IPO type of work in the US (major firms). Otherwise, NYU will be a better place due to its academic strength in Finance. Talking about buy side, Investment Management is a totally different industry, and it is even not a part of IB. Except if you account equity research as a buy side type of work.     

I'm just curious how you reach the conclusions ("Kellogg carries much stronger brand name in the business world, even in the investment banking industry" and "if you go toward this direction, Kellogg will be a better shot") without any supportive proof -- and you admitted there was not.

joshuatree

以下是引用fearfighter在2005-4-5 15:24:00的发言：

thanks for your constructive comments. I am heading for M&A in the banks, as it is related to my current work (Corp. Fin. in Big 4) although I like equity research very much. i can't say I am not interested in buy side but that's probably a later stage in my career path.

Stern: I love its placement report, extensive ib network and (said) job perspective, yet i am a little doubtful about Stern 1) as i heard, it's assumably the 2nd school in NY after columbia ( forgive me if I am wrong). 2) it probably carries lower international reputation than Kellogg, as I don't know if it's so easy to find a IB position in the states. rumor says it's very hard for Chinese ppl to land an IB job in the wall street, most ppl went back or to HK instead. and if this is the case, Stern may not be as competitative as others.

1) In terms of overall reputation, Stern is behind CBS in NYC (and it's arguably to say Stern is at least not behind CBS on finance).  arallel thinking, however, MIT "runs 2nd" in Boston to HBS, Haas "runs 2nd" in Bay Area to Stanford, and all b-schools run Nth in US to HBS).  2) Same story: in terms of over reputation in global business world, it's true that Kellogg (or maybe Tuck, humbly guess) wins more eye balls than Stern does, but this conclusion may not be effective for top IB's international branchs.  ragmatically the most important weights they put on evaluating school names are how many students they previously recruited here and how these graduates have performed in their firms by far.  From this standing of point,, Wharton runs #1 at top IBs in HK, with Stern and Chicago followed on par.  I am not saying Chinese students in Kellogg are less competitive on IB positions.  The key is that really less students in Kellogg are targeting finance sectors (but the competition in Stern is not higher because it's always same to compete with 3 guys as to compete with 1 guy on dozens of job offerings).

Acquiring IB offers from anywhere never seems to be easy but at least not an impossible attempt.  One of the 3 mainland Chinese students mentioned above is going to Morgan Stanley NYC for equity research.  The other UBS HK guy actually declined UBS NYC's Sales & Trading offer due to personal preference of heading back to Asia.  The banking stuff (M&A, capital markets, underwriting, leveraged finance) may be tougher for non-English-speaking candidates because of more communicational efforts involved.

also I heard Tuck also place a good number of graduates to banks. and its small pool of students may get you more interview slot. and Kellogg, I can't imagine any bank not coming to kellogg to recruit. damn it's hard to decide.

Yes. Kellogg has a better brand name overall, Tuck has been truely exceptional on IB and Wall Street, so it's fairly tough to choose, but as I guess not really by now, when you are just thinking of the applying stuff.  I suggest you apply for all the three and throw the headache to th future when you get 3 offers.  Ignoring 1 or 2 of them would not be critical if you have some other decent schools placed on higher priorities.

mbacn02

Kellogg is a power house in terms of Marketing and General Management, that's why I say it has higher reputation in the business world as an overall. Taking about investment Banking, simply I met more Corporate Finance people from the major firms who are from Kellogg than from NYU on the Street. And I met more part time NYU students than full time. Again, don't make me wrong, NYU is a very good finance school, and I believe the placement should be good too.

And you are right that probably not so many people in Kellogg plan to go to banking, and I heard that this year their career office sent so many emails to their students urging them to sign up the interviews for those investment banks due to so many spots left vacant.

And I don't know what is happening about Morgan Stanley equity reserch, they are hiring crazy. Last year, and this year they took so many people including many chinese to their US offices. Last year, some Kellogg people went there too. And I am hoping they can survive through Morgan's turmoil these days.

joshuatree

I'm not insulting you but most people will simply ignore your argument here if you keep evading any objective proof to support your conclusion.

以下是引用mbacn02在2005-4-6 6:52:00的发言：

Kellogg is a power house in terms of Marketing and General Management, that's why I say it has higher reputation in the business world as an overall. Taking about investment Banking, simply I met more Corporate Finance people from the major firms who are from Kellogg than from NYU on the Street. And I met more part time NYU students than full time. Again, don't make me wrong, NYU is a very good finance school, and I believe the placement should be good too.

So how many "corporate finance people from majors firms" have you met and of which how many were from Kellogg, NYU fulltime, as well as full time?  I believe you know the scale of sample space matters a lot, let alone your logic that numbers determined reputation.

If you do wanna build up your argument on numbers of alumni, I'd like to inform you some statistical numbers if you don't mind: 20-25 graduates are placed by Kellogg to top banks at Wall Street per annum vis-a-vis 120 FULLTIME graduates per annum by NYU Stern.  Stern's full-time program owns the 3rd largest alumni/a base at Wall Street's top banks (just behind Wharton and Columbia).

And you are right that probably not so many people in Kellogg plan to go to banking, and I heard that this year their career office sent so many emails to their students urging them to sign up the interviews for those investment banks due to so many spots left vacant.

And I don't know what is happening about Morgan Stanley equity reserch, they are hiring crazy. Last year, and this year they took so many people including many chinese to their US offices. Last year, some Kellogg people went there too. And I am hoping they can survive through Morgan's turmoil these days.

Again, you said "so many people including many Chinese people" were hired by Morgan Stanley Equity Research, so HOW MANY peoplr / Chinese people as you know were hired?

Anyhow, as what I've known, Morgan Stanley Equity Research (NYC) hired only 7 summer interns last year and 6 this year, two of whom are mainland Chinese and they are both from Stern.  The headcounts hired are still one of the smallest in the Street.  So no need to worry about Morgan's nonexistent "turmoil", please.

[此贴子已经被作者于2005-4-6 7:50:32编辑过]

mbacn02

Goldman Sachs Number hired:   76
	Schools where Goldman Sachs hired MBAs: (Click any school name to see profile, including top 15 recruiters)
	School		Number
	University of Pennsylvania		29
	Columbia University		18
	University of Chicago		6
	Duke University		5
	Northwestern University		5
	Indian Institute of Management at Ahmedabad		4
	London Business School		3
	Dartmouth College		2
	Fordham University		2
	HEC - School of Management		1
	Illinois at Urbana-Champaign		1