Something about Warwick

unnc2010 · 发表于 2010-11-16 06:19:48

I've been at Warwick for about two months, major is Economics. I want to point out something I experienced, which was totally different from what I thought a year ago. DON'T MEAN TO START A DEBATE! Anyone interested in the job market, especially banking, in UK may want to read this:

1. I was thinking UK is not a good job market.

If you didn't have an IB or consulting internship, I'd admit that you are almost impossible to land a graduate job in front offices at IB, PE, HF in UK. But isn't it the same at other places? In terms of internship application, I really think every Chinese student has a chance.

2. I was thinking Warwick is not a good university in terms of job hunting.

Honestly speaking, I was aiming for an academic career. In the past, I normally assumed that Warwick was not an IB target university. When I came here, every major bank does have presentation, attend the career fair, and open some skill sessions here. Some prop trading firms and hedge funds like Optiver, Jane Street also have presence. After extensive networking with employees and HRs, I think the general consensus among them is that the best six UK IB target universities are LSE, Oxbridge, IC, UCL and Warwick. If talking about trading or quant trading, Warwick can be in top 3. Here I can also get the opportunity to meet with banks' MDs, free training courses from Training the Street, and office visit to the big banks in London.

3. I was thinking Economics master is a useless major for job hunting.

Until now, I found this major put me an advantage other than disadvantage. The main argument of the uselessness theory is: first, the courses are so theoretical and impractical -- how about history, music, and politics? Are they useful? At least economics trains people to think logically and quantitatively; second, economics department does not have a strong career service -- which is true, but I really think networking and peer effect are way more important than the CV editing...Without being biased, the majority of the employees appeared in the presentation are from econ majors. I admit, because I am applying for internship and equity research position, I must have some bias towards this.

4. I was thinking Chinese students cannot efficiently network.

After several weeks, I really want to say that not Chinese students cannot network, but most Chinese students do not network. I don't know the reason, maybe due to confidence, may don't know the importance. When the MDs of the banks present the slides, you can see many Chinese faces on the seats. When moving into the networking sessions, there are fewer and fewer. This is even worse among Postgraduate students. I started my decision to apply for internship about one month ago, I can now network with the people -- some of them are really nice, one girl from Goldman Sachs carefully modified my CV and cover letter, and one Italian guy from Morgan Stanley was really supportive during the whole application process. It was not because I am good, but because networking is not that hard.

At last your personality and ability win you the job--which is totally your business, no one or university could help you a lot. Whether a university is good or bad should be judged on whether it could give a platform to get through CV screening process. In terms of this criterion, Warwick is not a bad choice. I have no experience in finance before -- not even an internship. All in my CV are just societies, academic experience... But I start to have some interview invitations now. Many undergraduate students here from China also do really good jobs.

IN THE END, I REALLY WANT TO SAY I HATE ENDLESS COMPARISION. WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS THAT WARWICK IS NOT BAD, UK IS NOT BAD. THAT'S IT. ALSO, WHAT I TALK ABOUT IS UK JOB MARKET. IF YOU WANTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT HONKONG AND MAINLAND'S MARKET, I REALLY CANNOT HELP. I AM A NEWCOMER TO THIS FIELD. WHAT I WANT TO DO IS TO HELP SOME OUTSIDERS, JUST LIKE ME A YEAR AGO. DON'T MISLEAD ME AS WELL. THANK YOU.

qingzhang1 · 发表于 2010-11-16 06:45:36

Several other points I think worth mentioning:

1.In UK, if you are doing a one-year master, in most cases, you d better start preparing your full time application if not submitting it altogether BEFORE you course starts.

2. In terms of location, Coventry is about 1h train away from Lonodon, and you can get to Coventry train station from Warwick within 15 minutes by taxi.

3. In my opinion, Economics alone with Maths and maybe WBS are the best departments in Warwick. So LZ's view does not apply if you are going to, say, wmg.

4. By the term "target university", it does not just suggest that IB turns up for campus presentation (in UK, they turn up to loads). What it means is that Warwick student has a strong representation in IB FO in London.

5. Do not know about the suitability of Msc Economics on banking, but at least for Bsc Economics, it does not stop you from applying to any position in IB.

unnc2010 · 发表于 2010-11-16 07:06:22

Agree~About point 3, if a student prepare really really well, try his/her best to netowrk, and has some interesting experience, the difference should be not significant. And about point 5, it is not about whether it is economics or finance or mathematics, I think it is about the way of thinking, personality, and the degree of preparation. BSc in economics students at Warwick are quite well according to these criteria.

sdcar2010 · 发表于 2010-11-16 07:11:27

I heard the only significant invention from the banking industry during the last 50 years is the ATM machine. All those fancy financial vehicles "invented" and marketed by IB were simply pocket-picking techniques disguised as helping hand. Is that true?

qingzhang1 · 发表于 2010-11-16 07:42:44

Haha...omg, you are hijacking this thread!!!

No.

First, I dont not know if we can compare these two kinds of inventions, I mean, think about inventing a machine that helping give birth and inventing babies...

As somebody who has no experience working full time in the financial sector, I think those financial vehicles are really just the results of supply and demand, the consequence of fear and greed and the effect of many many self-interest individuals. But, is not the market governed by the supply and demand? Is not mankind driven by fear and greed? And who is not self-interested? If you pick someone's pocket, by definition, he is not aware of it and neither does he like it. Financial vehicles, on the contrary, was initially designed to benifit both parties, and if this aint the case, then it not would be invented in the first place.

Financial vehicles has nothing bad or wrong, it is the mind behind it that might have misled us.

sdcar2010 · 发表于 2010-11-16 08:04:35

蒙太奇 · 发表于 2010-11-16 08:18:16

no offense to all....I think not many ppl like UK is becoz of some rumors....
e.g.

1) easy to get in...blahblahblah...although this does not apply to top schools, the overall impression sucks.

2) Some ppl don't want to take GRE, which makes chinese think UK schools are easier to get in

3) too many graduates from UK. Whereas not many graduates come from the states or Canada.( I guess they have immigrated?)

4) US schools are rich.

unnc2010 · 发表于 2010-11-16 08:26:28

They are not rumors, but true. But does it indicate UK students all suck? Honestly in my opinion, the biggest reason for the difference in achievement between UK and US Chinese students is that the best students go to US. In my class, there are really few Chinese students actively finding the job. So, what you basically say is true, but they are all about others -- not about me. I don't think the job market sucks, which is the only thing I consider.

cherrycheng · 发表于 2010-11-16 09:36:28

LZ, I think I know who you are! Mr. Li !!!!

zbb88 · 发表于 2010-11-16 10:20:48

楼主英文不错，条理清晰，观点鲜明，主管能动性强

拿国家作为整体来对比是很幼稚的想法，更重要的因素如学校和个体的差异反而被忽视掉了（当然如果后2条拿不出手的话也只能反复借第一条发挥了）。

BTW，我见过最牛的简历就是一WARWICK经济学本科生的（北欧人）。那工作经历真是炫目啊，像这样能闪到我的不多。

[学校信息] Something about Warwick

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