目前为止，只有9个月经验，申请好学校，是不是没戏啊

cannedpineapple · 发表于 2009-12-20 04:37:13

douce> Of course you need to stand out. How else will they choose between the many capable applicants?

Unfortunately, saying that you are a product that you are trying to sell to the schools is just not a very good analogy. In this case, they want you to know what you want, and that is the best way you can sell. Think of it this way: if you were a school, and there were two candidates:

The first guy is trying very hard to sell himself to you, telling you everything that he thinks you want to know.
The second guy says, I know who I am. This is who I am. Here are my strengths, my weaknesses, here is where I have failed. I am not perfect, but I hope I can improve.

Notice that what the second guy is saying is connected to what schools are looking for. They ask about your strengths and weaknesses. They want to know where you have failed. And so on. 9 out of 10 times, the second guy, the one who understands himself, and doesn't try to 'sell himself', will get in. The one who tries to hard to sell himself, however, tends to fail. I've seen this many, many times, with many capable candidates, and it sometimes pains me, because I think, if only they would not try so hard to sell themselves..

Lastly, the best way to contribute to the school is to be who you are, and not try to be someone you're not. Again, the path to success lies in understanding yourself, and not knowing what the school wants. Far from looking for perfection, schools are actually looking for individuals who know where their weaknesses are. And here, again, is why the selling analogy doesn't really work. How many people you know, try to 'sell something' by saying, 'I'm going to be honest with you, here is everything that is wrong about my product.'?

I meant 'guy' as in 'person'. Sorry.

bloome> good luck. If you want to apply, you could try to do the same and try to find some experiences from outside of work to make your case.

Jason

doucevoyage · 发表于 2009-12-20 05:06:24

Jason, thank you very much for the thoughtful advice. The "selling" that I'm talking about is not to only tell the schools what they want to hear, afterall, it'll show during the interview. I'm not trying to say I'm perfect, afterall, we all know nobody is perfect. Rather, it's more important to be the right person (at least that's how i see it) for the school. Like you said, try to convince the school that I'm ready for this new journey in my life, and this is the school that's best for me, and i'm best for the school.

Thanks a lot for the advice.

cannedpineapple · 发表于 2009-12-20 07:10:07

douce> Exactly right. Unfortunately most people focus more on the 'for the school' than 'the right person' part, without realising that they two are not different things. If you are the 'right person', who knows himself, then the school will want you, simple as that.

This, BTW, is why I post on CD so much. If you look at profile, experiences, so on, I'm very ordinary. Need more proof of that? When I applied for consulting internships last summer... I didn't get a single interview. Yes, my resume is really that ordinary.

For business-school applications, too: with not much of a resume to count on, all I could do was to self-reflect and hope that the schools I liked liked what I was saying. Thankfully they did.

Jason

topmba2009 · 发表于 2009-12-20 09:26:10

douce> Exactly right. Unfortunately most people focus more on the 'for the school' than 'the right person' part, without realising that they two are not different things. If you are the 'right person', who knows himself, then the school will want you, simple as that.

This, BTW, is why I post on CD so much. If you look at profile, experiences, so on, I'm very ordinary. Need more proof of that? When I applied for consulting internships last summer... I didn't get a single interview. Yes, my resume is really that ordinary.

For business-school applications, too: with not much of a resume to count on, all I could do was to self-reflect and hope that the schools I liked liked what I was saying. Thankfully they did.

Jason

-- by 会员 jelt2359 (2009/12/20 7:10:07)

Jason, I actually would love to show my true self in front of the admission officers, particularly in the Stanford "What Matters Most" essay. I have read yours, impressive. However, my version of story inevitably involves the bad, the ugly and the dark side of my background (not a drug gang member myself, but still......). There is a redemption part in my experience.

I guess it is a question of "how" when we try to just "be ourselves". It requires tactics in writing. Not too much, Not too little, just enough. The choice of an appropriate topic is also important. So when I choose topics, I can't avoid thinking about what the schools might feel not so overwhelmed, thus the "right" story.

It is a case by case thing. And it is not easy.....

cannedpineapple · 发表于 2009-12-20 09:50:05

It is difficult. I do have a suggestion, though. Ask the people who would best know if you're 'being yourself'- your close friends, the people whom you trust and who trust you and dare to tell you the truth, and so on- to read your essays, and ask them if this represents you. You need them to be able to tell you 'this is bullshit', so tell them that. You want their honest, critical opinion. 忠言逆耳

Instead of taking this approach, I've found that a lot of people instead ask alumni to read their essays. Unfortunately, most alumni look out for the 'facts', and don't really take a step back and think, 'does this look sincere?' After all, it's always easy to give 'strategic advice'- "I think you should have dealt with the situation this way.." etc. But it's far harder to say, "This doesn't sound sincere to me." The problem with the latter is, it is very hard to pick out 'specific examples', especially for someone who doesn't know you well, and doesn't know what your true motivations might be.

Anyway, the point is, the more you worry about what schools want, the less you tend to know what or who you are. EVERYONE worries- what if I tell the school who I am, and they don't like it? Well, that's a risk you'll have to take. I've seen many people try the opposite approach, and fail quite miserably. Not because this is not a logical approach- it seems to make so much sense. I want to get in, so I give you what you want. Unfortunately there is a HUGE contradiction here: when I am focusing on what you want, then I tend to lose track of who I am. By focusing on what the schools want, in fact you end up giving them exactly what they DO NOT want.

Jason

topmba2009 · 发表于 2009-12-20 09:55:23

It is difficult. I do have a suggestion, though. Ask the people who would best know if you're 'being yourself'- your close friends, the people whom you trust and who trust you and dare to tell you the truth, and so on- to read your essays, and ask them if this represents you. You need them to be able to tell you 'this is bullshit', so tell them that. You want their honest, critical opinion. 忠言逆耳

Instead of taking this approach, I've found that a lot of people instead ask alumni to read their essays. Unfortunately, most alumni look out for the 'facts', and don't really take a step back and think, 'does this look sincere?' After all, it's always easy to give 'strategic advice'- "I think you should have dealt with the situation this way.." etc. But it's far harder to say, "This doesn't sound sincere to me." The problem with the latter is, it is very hard to pick out 'specific examples', especially for someone who doesn't know you well, and doesn't know what your true motivations might be.

Anyway, the point is, the more you worry about what schools want, the less you tend to know what or who you are. EVERYONE worries- what if I tell the school who I am, and they don't like it? Well, that's a risk you'll have to take. I've seen many people try the opposite approach, and fail quite miserably. Not because this is not a logical approach- it seems to make so much sense. I want to get in, so I give you what you want. Unfortunately there is a HUGE contradiction here: when I am focusing on what you want, then I tend to lose track of who I am. By focusing on what the schools want, in fact you end up giving them exactly what they DO NOT want.

Jason

-- by 会员 jelt2359 (2009/12/20 9:50:05)

Let's call it the paradoxical truth!

Being yourself and taking the risk --> good chances of not being taken as faking, thus being liked by the adcom
Trying too hard to please the adcom --> failing to attain the goal you were trying to achieve

Lelouch · 发表于 2009-12-22 09:34:50

douce> Exactly right. Unfortunately most people focus more on the 'for the school' than 'the right person' part, without realising that they two are not different things. If you are the 'right person', who knows himself, then the school will want you, simple as that.

This, BTW, is why I post on CD so much. If you look at profile, experiences, so on, I'm very ordinary. Need more proof of that? When I applied for consulting internships last summer... I didn't get a single interview. Yes, my resume is really that ordinary.

For business-school applications, too: with not much of a resume to count on, all I could do was to self-reflect and hope that the schools I liked liked what I was saying. Thankfully they did.

Jason

-- by 会员 jelt2359 (2009/12/20 7:10:07)

但是这两点其实并不矛盾, just ask yourself, what if you are not 'the right person'? Then dont apply? No, you should try harder to fit the school's expectation!
这些讨论到最后就象气宗和剑宗之争一样,一个是外家,一个是内功,无非就是都重要,没有哪个'更'重要

doucevoyage · 发表于 2009-12-22 13:47:21

呃，这事情其实不能光靠fit人家学校。其实选学校就跟婚姻一样，还是要相配，光靠自己努力去高攀人家还是不能保证以后是幸福的。同样道理，如果攀了其实并不适合自己的学校，哪怕进了也只是痛苦的开端。到时候这可是个200k的错误了。

美国很多人都说每家学校都是一个cult，有自己的风格，学生有相似的气质。If you apply to a school solely base on the ranking, but care less about the fit, then you're doomed to be an unhappy student, and you won't get as much out of the experience as possible.

Of course, that's my two cents. Drawing a relation between application of MBA and marriage might seem a bit extreme, but in a way, it's actually fairly true.

目前为止，只有9个月经验，申请好学校，是不是没戏啊

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