【紧急求助】after和before是否足以能表达时态顺序？

qiaowin88637

OG86. The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
(A) which increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after it fell
(B) which had increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after it had fallen
(C) which have increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after falling
(D) with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after falling
(E) with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after having fallen

OA: C
OG对AB给出的解释是："the verb tense do not distinguish between the times at which these indicators occurred"
忽略it不能指代profits的错误，单从OG的解释来说，可AB答案已经有after了啊？为什么还需要用不同时态强调先后顺序？

OG的解释与manhattan完全相反！！！
以下摘自manhattan Page110：
Right: Laura LOCKED the dead bolt before she LEFT for work.
Likewise, we already know that locked happens before left because of the word before. The words before and after indicate the sequence of events clearly and emphatically enough to make the use of the Past Perfect unnecessary.

还有OG123.
She was less successful after she had emigrated to New York compared to her native Germany,photographer Lotte Jacobi nevertheless earned a small group of discerning admirers, and her photographs were eventually exhibited in prestigious galleries across the United States.
(A) She was less successful after she had emigrated to New York compared to
(B) Being less successful after she had emigrated to New York as compared to
(C) Less successful after she emigrated to New York than she had been in
(D) Although she was less successful after emigrating to New York when compared to
(E) She had been less successful after emigrating to New York than in
OA: C
虽然A是错的，但OG对A选项的解释并没有说she was... after she had emigrated有时态错误，这就是说OG明确表示了即使after before错在也依然需要明确的时态表示出先后关系吗？

马上考试了T T 求指点！！跪谢！！！

babybearmm

先说在前面：看你这么着急求助，我觉得最好的方法就是放弃verb tense，听Ron的话
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-689762-1-1.html
以下我简单说，如果你不能理解，建议你forget about verb tense.

OG86 时态错误是因为"which increased"应该是"which have increased"，你要考虑前后文的联系。前面说are evident就定义了这个reference frame，后面补充说明，那么肯定是观测者位于这个reference frame上的，所以要用have increased.
后面的相应地改，after doing最straightforward. Again, 不用verb tense，"it"那个agreement的错误最直接最绝对。

Manhattan说的是对的。

OG123, 有一个逻辑问题不知道你是否认同：如果大的方向都错了（大错特错），那么小的错误就不计了。
就好比走路，本来要往北走，结果你往南走，那难道老师还该纠正你说：“你选的这条路不好，这条路弯弯曲曲的，或者这条路堵车”？
同样的道理，选项(A)就是个run-on sentence，那么严重的问题，直接咔嚓。就说压根就不能两个s-v那么连着，那你还管verbal tense干吗？OG不提也罢，你也不用管了。

qiaowin88637

谢谢baby姐 我抓紧时间看你发的那个帖子

gui59106375

摘自prep08
A.    Increased和have increased都可以，只是表达的意义不同，如果这句话写于今年3月底，那么就用have increased，要是写于4月及以后就用increased(此处与OG12的解释略有不同)；it指代profits单复数错误；after it fell应该用after it had fallen与over the last two years搭配，但是不如after falling简洁
B.    it错误同A；after it had fallen时态上没有问题，可以与over the last two years搭配，但是不如after falling简洁

ainiAnnie

先说在前面：看你这么着急求助，我觉得最好的方法就是放弃verb tense，听Ron的话
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-689762-1-1.html
以下我简单说，如果你不能理解，建议你forget about verb tense.

OG86 时态错误是因为"which increased"应该是"which have increased"，你要考虑前后文的联系。前面说are evident就定义了这个reference frame，后面补充说明，那么肯定是观测者位于这个reference frame上的，所以要用have increased.
后面的相应地改，after doing最straightforward. Again, 不用verb tense，"it"那个agreement的错误最直接最绝对。

Manhattan说的是对的。

OG123, 有一个逻辑问题不知道你是否认同：如果大的方向都错了（大错特错），那么小的错误就不计了。
就好比走路，本来要往北走，结果你往南走，那难道老师还该纠正你说：“你选的这条路不好，这条路弯弯曲曲的，或者这条路堵车”？
同样的道理，选项(A)就是个run-on sentence，那么严重的问题，直接咔嚓。就说压根就不能两个s-v那么连着，那你还管verbal tense干吗？OG不提也罢，你也不用管了。

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/6/18 11:49:25)

baby姐姐实在不好意思再问你这道问题，因为你这里讲了，日记里也讲了...可是我还是有点小疑惑呀...还希望baby姐姐能解答一下：
This sentence describes two sequentially ordered indicators by which the results of a company’s cost cutting measures can be seen. The first indicator to be identified, a 5 percent increase in profits, occurred after the indicator mentioned next.The sentence therefore needs to clarify the sequence by presenting the first-identified indicator in a clause with a verb tense that indicates a later time period than the verb tense in the clause presenting the second-identified indicator.
然后对正确答案C，og的解答是：
The verb tenses clearly indicate the sequence of events.
我的问题是：（1）只有现在完成时有clarify the sequence 的功能么？既然Ron在这里说 increased 和 have increased 都可以，是不是说这两者都有clarify the sequence 的功能呢？？
（2）og，75，现在完成时的用法：One use of the present perfect is to express a future action that will be completed before another future action.

75.A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’horns have been trimmed.
和这里的有关系么？有点混乱了....

先谢谢姐姐了~~

babybearmm

先说在前面：看你这么着急求助，我觉得最好的方法就是放弃verb tense，听Ron的话
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-689762-1-1.html
以下我简单说，如果你不能理解，建议你forget about verb tense.

OG86 时态错误是因为"which increased"应该是"which have increased"，你要考虑前后文的联系。前面说are evident就定义了这个reference frame，后面补充说明，那么肯定是观测者位于这个reference frame上的，所以要用have increased.
后面的相应地改，after doing最straightforward. Again, 不用verb tense，"it"那个agreement的错误最直接最绝对。

Manhattan说的是对的。

OG123, 有一个逻辑问题不知道你是否认同：如果大的方向都错了（大错特错），那么小的错误就不计了。
就好比走路，本来要往北走，结果你往南走，那难道老师还该纠正你说：“你选的这条路不好，这条路弯弯曲曲的，或者这条路堵车”？
同样的道理，选项(A)就是个run-on sentence，那么严重的问题，直接咔嚓。就说压根就不能两个s-v那么连着，那你还管verbal tense干吗？OG不提也罢，你也不用管了。

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/6/18 11:49:25)

baby姐姐实在不好意思再问你这道问题，因为你这里讲了，日记里也讲了...可是我还是有点小疑惑呀...还希望baby姐姐能解答一下：
This sentence describes two sequentially ordered indicators by which the results of a company’s cost cutting measures can be seen. The first indicator to be identified, a 5 percent increase in profits, occurred after the indicator mentioned next.The sentence therefore needs to clarify the sequence by presenting the first-identified indicator in a clause with a verb tense that indicates a later time period than the verb tense in the clause presenting the second-identified indicator.
然后对正确答案C，og的解答是：
The verb tenses clearly indicate the sequence of events.
我的问题是：（1）只有现在完成时有clarify the sequence 的功能么？既然Ron在这里说 increased 和 have increased 都可以，是不是说这两者都有clarify the sequence 的功能呢？？
（2）og，75，现在完成时的用法：One use of the present perfect is to express a future action that will be completed before another future action.

75.A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’horns have been trimmed.
和这里的有关系么？有点混乱了....

先谢谢姐姐了~~

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/8/7 16:41:12)

第一题，OG的意思是说，两个sequential events指的是profits
(1)下降 (for two years)
(2)上升
这两者之间是有联系的！也就是说这个句子要表达的意思到底是什么！是说the cutting-costs measure成功了，能在profits连续两年下降的情况下逆转回升。
OG所谓fails to clarify the sequence，就是说(A)选项这两个动词都是simple past，尽管有after，但是after体现的只是时间上的先后，体现不出逻辑先后。逻辑上的先后需要用perfect tense来体现。


看Ron在这里的讲解：http://www.beatthegmat.com/present-perfect-and-past-perfect-usage-summarized-t49438.html
tom had been a professional football player before his leg was injured in an accident --> this sentence is meant to emphasize the abrupt ending of tom's football career, due to the accident.
tom was a professional football player before his leg was injured in an accident --> the emphasis is on the fact that tom played pro football, not on the way his career ended.



另外，OG有道题目是某个女军人，joined the army... was injured three times ... was discharged...
37. Dressed as a man and using the name Robert Shurtleff, Deborah Sampson, the first woman to draw a soldier's pension, joined the Continental Army in 1782 at the age of 22, was injured three times, and was discharged in 1783 because she had become too ill to serve.

你看看这里一系列事件为啥都是simple past，而没有用到perfect tense....因为作者没表达这一系列事件的“逻辑先后”，仅仅只是通过time indicators体现出的“时间先后”。


75题，你说得很对，这题也是相关的。这里必须用"have trimmed"来体现逻辑先后，因为句子要表达的意思就是当这些犀牛角被去掉后还能否吸引游客。

ainiAnnie

先说在前面：看你这么着急求助，我觉得最好的方法就是放弃verb tense，听Ron的话
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-689762-1-1.html
以下我简单说，如果你不能理解，建议你forget about verb tense.

OG86 时态错误是因为"which increased"应该是"which have increased"，你要考虑前后文的联系。前面说are evident就定义了这个reference frame，后面补充说明，那么肯定是观测者位于这个reference frame上的，所以要用have increased.
后面的相应地改，after doing最straightforward. Again, 不用verb tense，"it"那个agreement的错误最直接最绝对。

Manhattan说的是对的。

OG123, 有一个逻辑问题不知道你是否认同：如果大的方向都错了（大错特错），那么小的错误就不计了。
就好比走路，本来要往北走，结果你往南走，那难道老师还该纠正你说：“你选的这条路不好，这条路弯弯曲曲的，或者这条路堵车”？
同样的道理，选项(A)就是个run-on sentence，那么严重的问题，直接咔嚓。就说压根就不能两个s-v那么连着，那你还管verbal tense干吗？OG不提也罢，你也不用管了。

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/6/18 11:49:25)

baby姐姐实在不好意思再问你这道问题，因为你这里讲了，日记里也讲了...可是我还是有点小疑惑呀...还希望baby姐姐能解答一下：
This sentence describes two sequentially ordered indicators by which the results of a company’s cost cutting measures can be seen. The first indicator to be identified, a 5 percent increase in profits, occurred after the indicator mentioned next.The sentence therefore needs to clarify the sequence by presenting the first-identified indicator in a clause with a verb tense that indicates a later time period than the verb tense in the clause presenting the second-identified indicator.
然后对正确答案C，og的解答是：
The verb tenses clearly indicate the sequence of events.
我的问题是：（1）只有现在完成时有clarify the sequence 的功能么？既然Ron在这里说 increased 和 have increased 都可以，是不是说这两者都有clarify the sequence 的功能呢？？
（2）og，75，现在完成时的用法：One use of the present perfect is to express a future action that will be completed before another future action.

75.A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’horns have been trimmed.
和这里的有关系么？有点混乱了....

先谢谢姐姐了~~

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/8/7 16:41:12)

第一题，OG的意思是说，两个sequential events指的是profits
(1)下降 (for two years)
(2)上升
这两者之间是有联系的！也就是说这个句子要表达的意思到底是什么！是说the cutting-costs measure成功了，能在profits连续两年下降的情况下逆转回升。
OG所谓fails to clarify the sequence，就是说(A)选项这两个动词都是simple past，尽管有after，但是after体现的只是时间上的先后，体现不出逻辑先后。逻辑上的先后需要用perfect tense来体现。


看Ron在这里的讲解：http://www.beatthegmat.com/present-perfect-and-past-perfect-usage-summarized-t49438.html
tom had been a professional football player before his leg was injured in an accident --> this sentence is meant to emphasize the abrupt ending of tom's football career, due to the accident.
tom was a professional football player before his leg was injured in an accident --> the emphasis is on the fact that tom played pro football, not on the way his career ended.



另外，OG有道题目是某个女军人，joined the army... was injured three times ... was discharged...
37. Dressed as a man and using the name Robert Shurtleff, Deborah Sampson, the first woman to draw a soldier's pension, joined the Continental Army in 1782 at the age of 22, was injured three times, and was discharged in 1783 because she had become too ill to serve.

你看看这里一系列事件为啥都是simple past，而没有用到perfect tense....因为作者没表达这一系列事件的“逻辑先后”，仅仅只是通过time indicators体现出的“时间先后”。


75题，你说得很对，这题也是相关的。这里必须用"have trimmed"来体现逻辑先后，因为句子要表达的意思就是当这些犀牛角被去掉后还能否吸引游客。

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/8/12 9:40:57)

谢谢baby姐姐，又帮我搞懂了一个知识点~！！
大爱baby姐姐。
姐姐最近忙的话也要注意休息~每天都要保持很好的心情~~
mua~~

pheobe-J

babybearmm 发表于 2012-8-12 09:40
先说在前面：看你这么着急求助，我觉得最好的方法就是放弃verb tense，听Ron的话http://forum.chased ...

做题的时候根据during那里知道要用have，看到A项解释就被after那里知识点弄晕了，和楼主一样的困惑，为什么和manhattan讲的不一样，看完baby姐的解释真的是豁然开朗，谢谢！