关于Ving用法—og12 sc 中21和og25比较，有点迷惑了

babybearmm · 发表于 2012-4-5 07:18:32

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yeah, exactly! u r welcome<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /><div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/3/23 8:36:11)</div> 
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 baby, 请问OG-21的选项D及E是因为不符合下面的哪个原则而不能在句末跟", drawing"吗？因为关于D选项时态的解释显然和OG-78自相矛盾。 (A) it MODIFIES THE ENTIRE ACTION of the preceding clause, and it APPLIES TO THE SUBJECT of that clause; AND (B) one of the following is true: (1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action; - i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly (2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action. - i got a 100 on the most recent exam,bringing my average up to 91<div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 mongmong (2012/4/4 18:47:50)</div> 
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 (B) one of the following is true: (1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action; - i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly (2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action. - i got a 100 on the most recent exam,bringing my average up to 91 不符合以上我highlight的文字。你不妨仔细体会一下，是否simultaneous with?是否"direct and immediate consequence"?相信你能体会到。 Again，我认为这不是rule，不是说把Ron这段话背下来就能保证v-ing不出错。你随便找一篇NYT, economist, etc.上的文章，我敢说这里面几乎不可能没有"comma + v-ing"。因为这个结构在英语里太常见了！看多了，判断思路就是：句子想表达什么意思？ok，理解了句意，那么这个意思用"comma + v-ing"表达是否makes sense? 比如OG-21的D和E就都不make sense. 但是，我觉得你问的问题非常好，要感谢你<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /> 因为看你的提的这个问题，我才明白了为什么那么多同学会坚持跟我说什么“主句是完成时，那么就不能接comma+v-ing"。原来都是来源于OG-21 D/E。 但，我要谴责xdf，那说法误人子弟！OG没错，但xdf这说法是属于只抓住皮毛，而未抓住精髓。为什么？咱从时态角度来分析。 Having read a bunch of Ron's threads on v-ing and verb tense, I conceive of v-ing is such that: IF v-ing serves as a verb form, i.e. not a gerund or an adj. THEN the v-ing action is attached to the pertinent time frame. Speaking of "time frame", I mean - somewhat similar to the reference frame in physics: we always define the reference frame (with respect to the observer) when working with any mechanics problem.  Same principle applies to the verb tense issue in the English language. Here I provide some simple examples: Example 1: when is the action of "cleaning the street" taken place in each of the following cases? I saw a man cleaning the street. I see a man cleaning the street. I will see a man cleaning the street. Example 2: OG-12 QUESTION 95, correct sentence as below: The peaks of a mountain range, acting like rocks in a streambed, produce ripples in the air flowing over them; the resulting flow pattern, with crests and troughs that remain stationary although the air that forms them is moving rapidly, is known as “standing waves.” Question: why does the author use "is moving" not "moves"? See here for Ron's response: <a href="http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html" target="_blank">http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html </a> 以上两个例子，是想说明一个很重要的concept，关于v-ing: the v-ing action is attached to the pertinent time frame 基于此，你就能理解Ron说的：为什么要是simultaneous，或者要是immediate consequence？ 就是因为必须是attached to the time frame!!!! 那么看OG12 Q21 的D/E选项： Neuroscientists have amassed bla bla over the past 20 yrs, now drawing bla bla. 见上句的highlighting，这两个动作所在的time frames根本就不同，相当于力学里我们在A参照系里研究事件X、然后又在B参照系里研究事件Y，所以就压根不能用v-ing来表述后面那个事件，因为后面那个事件根本就CANNOT be attached to the time frame A. 这就是为什么OG说的是： The final descriptor in present tense, now drawing conclusions … does not fit the opening clause, which is in present-perfect tense (have amassed a wealth …) 而根本不是像xdf那么归纳的所谓"v-ing"不能连完成时。他们只能看到外衣，没能体察灵魂！ 对比一下OG12 Q78 Fossils of the arm of a sloth, found in Puerto Rico in 1991, have been dated at 34 million years old, making the sloth the earliest known mammal on the Greater Antilles Islands. 看看这里, 就是attached to the pertinent time frame。对不对？"making ..."这个事件是和"have been dated"这个事件位于同一个time frame. 所以说这里v-ing就是makes sense. 而不能说什么v-ing就不能跟着完成时。 <a href="http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html" target="_blank"></a>

199249712 · 发表于 2012-4-5 08:20:00

<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/54.gif" emoticon="[em:54]" alt="" />mark。。 ving。。。我的死穴，，，

199249712 · 发表于 2012-4-5 09:09:54

从头爬了一遍。 再次总结一下附上yiayia哥的总结加后面的总结。。 Ving—总结 1）    V+ing,SVO 可以修饰主语、谓语 noun modifier or verb modifier 2) S,V+ing,VO 修饰主语 noun modifier 3)SVO,V-ing 修饰谓语，句子   verb modifier or clause modifier 切记绝对没有noun-modify（相当于副词adverbial modifier, modifies the entire action of the preceding clause and applies to the subject within that clause.）  且可以修饰进行时、完成时 4)comma+v-ed 是严格的touch-role 就近修饰前面的名词 5），"comma+v-ing"作为状语，如果不是"simultaneously with"那种情况，就必须表达"direct and immediate consequence". With—总结 With summer coming, biologists estimate that the deer population will soon increase. × With summer coming, the dear population, based on the estimation of biologists, will soon increase.√ Base—总结 base是继物动词 你可以说"basing A on B"，但不能说"basing on B" 没有"base on sth" 的，可以有"based on sth." 就相当于 A is based on sth. A, based on sth, is bla bla bla 欢迎大家补充哈…………<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/54.gif" emoticon="[em:54]" alt="" /> 突然很想说点啥。。额。。 喜欢baby姐姐不止是这些 姐姐由于跟我们不是同一个时区在我们大下午的时候姐姐早已经是深夜了 我常发现姐姐在应该是很晚很晚很晚的时候仍然在看书 她自己课业应该要比我们繁忙因为她同时还在准备CFA 但是这些问题她都逐一回答了每一个问题不管大小 小到可能细心的同学往前翻一翻就发现答案在前面 大到从头到尾重新帮你梳理一遍知识体系 甚至包括你需要翻墙才能打开的网页她都帮你复制粘贴 甚至这些问题需要她好几个小时 当我觉得都有些不好意思的时候她还甚至会安慰我说我帮助她整理了这些知识体系 我说这些只是希望每一位潜水的或者冒泡的CDer们。。 无论你们考出来了怎样的成绩当有一天离开CD的时候 都不要忘记姐姐曾经带给大家的帮助 而我们从她这里学走的不仅是一个一个清晰完整的知识点 应该是一个CDer的学习精神以及人格魅力！！

mongmong · 发表于 2012-4-5 09:27:58

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yeah, exactly! u r welcome<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /><div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/3/23 8:36:11)</div> 
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 baby, 请问OG-21的选项D及E是因为不符合下面的哪个原则而不能在句末跟", drawing"吗？因为关于D选项时态的解释显然和OG-78自相矛盾。 (A) it MODIFIES THE ENTIRE ACTION of the preceding clause, and it APPLIES TO THE SUBJECT of that clause; AND (B) one of the following is true: (1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action; - i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly (2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action. - i got a 100 on the most recent exam,bringing my average up to 91<div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 mongmong (2012/4/4 18:47:50)</div> 
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 (B) one of the following is true: (1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action; - i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly (2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action. - i got a 100 on the most recent exam,bringing my average up to 91 不符合以上我highlight的文字。你不妨仔细体会一下，是否simultaneous with?是否"direct and immediate consequence"?相信你能体会到。 Again，我认为这不是rule，不是说把Ron这段话背下来就能保证v-ing不出错。你随便找一篇NYT, economist, etc.上的文章，我敢说这里面几乎不可能没有"comma + v-ing"。因为这个结构在英语里太常见了！看多了，判断思路就是：句子想表达什么意思？ok，理解了句意，那么这个意思用"comma + v-ing"表达是否makes sense? 比如OG-21的D和E就都不make sense. 但是，我觉得你问的问题非常好，要感谢你<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /> 因为看你的提的这个问题，我才明白了为什么那么多同学会坚持跟我说什么“主句是完成时，那么就不能接comma+v-ing"。原来都是来源于OG-21 D/E。 但，我要谴责xdf，那说法误人子弟！OG没错，但xdf这说法是属于只抓住皮毛，而未抓住精髓。为什么？咱从时态角度来分析。 Having read a bunch of Ron's threads on v-ing and verb tense, I conceive of v-ing is such that: IF v-ing serves as a verb form, i.e. not a gerund or an adj. THEN the v-ing action is attached to the pertinent time frame. Speaking of "time frame", I mean - somewhat similar to the reference frame in physics: we always define the reference frame (with respect to the observer) when working with any mechanics problem.  Same principle applies to the verb tense issue in the English language. Here I provide some simple examples: Example 1: when is the action of "cleaning the street" taken place in each of the following cases? I saw a man cleaning the street. I see a man cleaning the street. I will see a man cleaning the street. Example 2: OG-12 QUESTION 95, correct sentence as below: The peaks of a mountain range, acting like rocks in a streambed, produce ripples in the air flowing over them; the resulting flow pattern, with crests and troughs that remain stationary although the air that forms them is moving rapidly, is known as “standing waves.” Question: why does the author use "is moving" not "moves"? See here for Ron's response: <a href="http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html" target="_blank">http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html </a> 以上两个例子，是想说明一个很重要的concept，关于v-ing: the v-ing action is attached to the pertinent time frame 基于此，你就能理解Ron说的：为什么要是simultaneous，或者要是immediate consequence？ 就是因为必须是attached to the time frame!!!! 那么看OG12 Q21 的D/E选项： Neuroscientists have amassed bla bla over the past 20 yrs, now drawing bla bla. 见上句的highlighting，这两个动作所在的time frames根本就不同，相当于力学里我们在A参照系里研究事件X、然后又在B参照系里研究事件Y，所以就压根不能用v-ing来表述后面那个事件，因为后面那个事件根本就CANNOT be attached to the time frame A. 这就是为什么OG说的是： The final descriptor in present tense, now drawing conclusions … does not fit the opening clause, which is in present-perfect tense (have amassed a wealth …) 而根本不是像xdf那么归纳的所谓"v-ing"不能连完成时。他们只能看到外衣，没能体察灵魂！ 对比一下OG12 Q78 Fossils of the arm of a sloth, found in Puerto Rico in 1991, have been dated at 34 million years old, making the sloth the earliest known mammal on the Greater Antilles Islands. 看看这里, 就是attached to the pertinent time frame。对不对？"making ..."这个事件是和"have been dated"这个事件位于同一个time frame. 所以说这里v-ing就是makes sense. 而不能说什么v-ing就不能跟着完成时。 <a href="http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html" target="_blank"></a><div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/5 7:18:32)</div> 
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 Thanks baby <img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /> 我其实还有疑问: 关于OG-21题的DE选项和78题的时态的矛盾，我觉得是不是这样的： 1) 关于78题, 我们可以确认的是,一,从句子意思上分析，“making ...” 不表伴随, 表结果, 二,其主句时态是完成时态； 2) 21题", drawing..."不表伴随（从句子意义上分析，having amassed a wealth of knowledge 不可以要求drawing solid conclusions伴随）； 3) 21题", drawing"也不能表结果, 原因有三个， 一是1)推理来的<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" />, 二是我感觉句末表结果的verb通常是“无实意的动词”比如bringing (the number of ... to 34)-OG47, making (the sloth the earliest known mammal...)-OG78. 如果是drawing solid conclusions这样的“实意的动词”，就不适合做结果了。 三是来自<a href="http://forum.chasedream.com/space/601410.html" target="_blank">99qiuqiu</a>的解释，我觉得也有参考意义: “now drawing 和drawing 在语气上是有区别的，作者有强调后面句子的intent，所以are now drawing 是main verb.” http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-695474-1-1.html?postid=16132153&searchmode=TopicContent&searchtext=Neuroscientists%20havin#last 我疑问地是，主句是完成时时，",ving" 在句末是错误的这个规则倘若存在，是不是仅限于", ving"表伴随时? 我觉得关于完成时态后面不能跟,ving的说法很奇怪，那为什么独独只对完成时有这个要求，一般过去时也是描述过去发生的事，就可以跟,ving。看了baby给出的解释和例子,有点明白了。

babybearmm · 发表于 2012-4-5 09:55:41

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从头爬了一遍。 再次总结一下附上yiayia哥的总结加后面的总结。。 Ving—总结 1）    V+ing,SVO 可以修饰主语、谓语 noun modifier or verb modifier 2) S,V+ing,VO 修饰主语 noun modifier 3)SVO,V-ing 修饰谓语，句子   verb modifier or clause modifier 切记绝对没有noun-modify（相当于副词adverbial modifier, modifies the entire action of the preceding clause and applies to the subject within that clause.）  且可以修饰进行时、完成时 4)comma+v-ed 是严格的touch-role 就近修饰前面的名词 5），"comma+v-ing"作为状语，如果不是"simultaneously with"那种情况，就必须表达"direct and immediate consequence". With—总结 With summer coming, biologists estimate that the deer population will soon increase. × With summer coming, the dear population, based on the estimation of biologists, will soon increase.√ Base—总结 base是继物动词 你可以说"basing A on B"，但不能说"basing on B" 没有"base on sth" 的，可以有"based on sth." 就相当于 A is based on sth. A, based on sth, is bla bla bla 欢迎大家补充哈…………<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/54.gif" emoticon="[em:54]" alt="" /> 突然很想说点啥。。额。。 喜欢baby姐姐不止是这些 姐姐由于跟我们不是同一个时区在我们大下午的时候姐姐早已经是深夜了 我常发现姐姐在应该是很晚很晚很晚的时候仍然在看书 她自己课业应该要比我们繁忙因为她同时还在准备CFA 但是这些问题她都逐一回答了每一个问题不管大小 小到可能细心的同学往前翻一翻就发现答案在前面 大到从头到尾重新帮你梳理一遍知识体系 甚至包括你需要翻墙才能打开的网页她都帮你复制粘贴 甚至这些问题需要她好几个小时 当我觉得都有些不好意思的时候她还甚至会安慰我说我帮助她整理了这些知识体系 我说这些只是希望每一位潜水的或者冒泡的CDer们。。 无论你们考出来了怎样的成绩当有一天离开CD的时候 都不要忘记姐姐曾经带给大家的帮助 而我们从她这里学走的不仅是一个一个清晰完整的知识点 应该是一个CDer的学习精神以及人格魅力！！<div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 199249712 (2012/4/5 9:09:54)</div> 
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 看得我好感动<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/9.gif" emoticon="[em:9]" alt="" /> mm我好喜欢你啊~~~~觉得你学习特别用心。老实说，我可能就那么看manhattan或者btg论坛，看到精彩之处恍然大悟，哇我懂了，也许伴随天马行空的联想。不过我这人特懒，真的，就不会去好好梳理总结。以前还做了个语法总结的word文档，几乎全是Ron的摘录，毫无条理，也没有目录，仅仅是供我在需要引用的时候（比如在论坛发贴讨论的时候）或者突然有什么灵感的时候用来search大神的语录. 现在我更懒了，看那些论坛就像走马观花，连摘录的事情都很久没做了。所以看你每次把同类问题汇集在一起问我，然后咱讨论过后你还总结成那么精致的word文档，就特感动，我也需要你的梳理啊！ 我觉得就像很多nn都说，总结需要自己做，才最有收获。CD里前辈大牛各种总结，比如tonyadidass的，bat的，溪予的......（恕我不name了，我自己都下载了好多）.....他们的总结很精华，只是有时候我会觉得仿佛那是在另一个世界，和自己的neurons的synapse距离太远，所以不太能够perceive. 而那些我亲身经历的和你们这些宝宝们的讨论，包括经bat, ae斑斑点拨的主题，我会更有感觉，理解得也更为透彻。所以看到Roy的总结（<a href="http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_Preparation/thread-693245-1-1.html" target="_blank">http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_Preparation/thread-693245-1-1.html</a>），yiayia, suri 以及你的总结，我就觉得对我真的太有价值了！其实，你能感觉得到的是你自己的收获（which i'm so glad to hear<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" />) ，不过我想让你知道的是，我从你们这些好伙伴身上也学到了不少，获得了很多帮助。GMAT buddies的强大作用，也是我看到很多国外的nn心经里强调的。

babybearmm · 发表于 2012-4-5 10:05:32

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yeah, exactly! u r welcome<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /><div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/3/23 8:36:11)</div> 
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 baby, 请问OG-21的选项D及E是因为不符合下面的哪个原则而不能在句末跟", drawing"吗？因为关于D选项时态的解释显然和OG-78自相矛盾。 (A) it MODIFIES THE ENTIRE ACTION of the preceding clause, and it APPLIES TO THE SUBJECT of that clause; AND (B) one of the following is true: (1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action; - i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly (2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action. - i got a 100 on the most recent exam,bringing my average up to 91<div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 mongmong (2012/4/4 18:47:50)</div> 
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 (B) one of the following is true: (1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action; - i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly (2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action. - i got a 100 on the most recent exam,bringing my average up to 91 不符合以上我highlight的文字。你不妨仔细体会一下，是否simultaneous with?是否"direct and immediate consequence"?相信你能体会到。 Again，我认为这不是rule，不是说把Ron这段话背下来就能保证v-ing不出错。你随便找一篇NYT, economist, etc.上的文章，我敢说这里面几乎不可能没有"comma + v-ing"。因为这个结构在英语里太常见了！看多了，判断思路就是：句子想表达什么意思？ok，理解了句意，那么这个意思用"comma + v-ing"表达是否makes sense? 比如OG-21的D和E就都不make sense. 但是，我觉得你问的问题非常好，要感谢你<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /> 因为看你的提的这个问题，我才明白了为什么那么多同学会坚持跟我说什么“主句是完成时，那么就不能接comma+v-ing"。原来都是来源于OG-21 D/E。 但，我要谴责xdf，那说法误人子弟！OG没错，但xdf这说法是属于只抓住皮毛，而未抓住精髓。为什么？咱从时态角度来分析。 Having read a bunch of Ron's threads on v-ing and verb tense, I conceive of v-ing is such that: IF v-ing serves as a verb form, i.e. not a gerund or an adj. THEN the v-ing action is attached to the pertinent time frame. Speaking of "time frame", I mean - somewhat similar to the reference frame in physics: we always define the reference frame (with respect to the observer) when working with any mechanics problem.  Same principle applies to the verb tense issue in the English language. Here I provide some simple examples: Example 1: when is the action of "cleaning the street" taken place in each of the following cases? I saw a man cleaning the street. I see a man cleaning the street. I will see a man cleaning the street. Example 2: OG-12 QUESTION 95, correct sentence as below: The peaks of a mountain range, acting like rocks in a streambed, produce ripples in the air flowing over them; the resulting flow pattern, with crests and troughs that remain stationary although the air that forms them is moving rapidly, is known as “standing waves.” Question: why does the author use "is moving" not "moves"? See here for Ron's response: <a href="http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html" target="_blank">http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html </a> 以上两个例子，是想说明一个很重要的concept，关于v-ing: the v-ing action is attached to the pertinent time frame 基于此，你就能理解Ron说的：为什么要是simultaneous，或者要是immediate consequence？ 就是因为必须是attached to the time frame!!!! 那么看OG12 Q21 的D/E选项： Neuroscientists have amassed bla bla over the past 20 yrs, now drawing bla bla. 见上句的highlighting，这两个动作所在的time frames根本就不同，相当于力学里我们在A参照系里研究事件X、然后又在B参照系里研究事件Y，所以就压根不能用v-ing来表述后面那个事件，因为后面那个事件根本就CANNOT be attached to the time frame A. 这就是为什么OG说的是： The final descriptor in present tense, now drawing conclusions … does not fit the opening clause, which is in present-perfect tense (have amassed a wealth …) 而根本不是像xdf那么归纳的所谓"v-ing"不能连完成时。他们只能看到外衣，没能体察灵魂！ 对比一下OG12 Q78 Fossils of the arm of a sloth, found in Puerto Rico in 1991, have been dated at 34 million years old, making the sloth the earliest known mammal on the Greater Antilles Islands. 看看这里, 就是attached to the pertinent time frame。对不对？"making ..."这个事件是和"have been dated"这个事件位于同一个time frame. 所以说这里v-ing就是makes sense. 而不能说什么v-ing就不能跟着完成时。 <a href="http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html" target="_blank"></a><div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/5 7:18:32)</div> 
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 Thanks baby <img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /> 我其实还有疑问: 关于OG-21题的DE选项和78题的时态的矛盾，我觉得是不是这样的： 1) 关于78题, 我们可以确认的是,一,从句子意思上分析，“making ...” 不表伴随, 表结果, 二,其主句时态是完成时态； 2) 21题", drawing..."不表伴随（从句子意义上分析，having amassed a wealth of knowledge 不可以要求drawing solid conclusions伴随）； 3) 21题", drawing"也不能表结果, 原因有三个， 一是1)推理来的<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" />, 二是我感觉句末表结果的verb通常是“无实意的动词”比如bringing (the number of ... to 34)-OG47, making (the sloth the earliest known mammal...)-OG78. 如果是drawing solid conclusions这样的“实意的动词”，就不适合做结果了。 三是来自<a href="http://forum.chasedream.com/space/601410.html" target="_blank">99qiuqiu</a>的解释，我觉得也有参考意义: “now drawing 和drawing 在语气上是有区别的，作者有强调后面句子的intent，所以are now drawing 是main verb.” http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-695474-1-1.html?postid=16132153&searchmode=TopicContent&searchtext=Neuroscientists%20havin#last 我疑问地是，主句是完成时时，",ving" 在句末是错误的这个规则倘若存在，是不是仅限于", ving"表伴随时? 我觉得关于完成时态后面不能跟,ving的说法很奇怪，那为什么独独只对完成时有这个要求，一般过去时也是描述过去发生的事，就可以跟,ving。看了baby给出的解释和例子,有点明白了。<div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 mongmong (2012/4/5 9:27:58)</div> 
</div>
 我觉得你说的关于这两道OG题目的这些123点很有道理啊，没错就这样的。 "我疑问地是，主句是完成时时，",ving" 在句末是错误的这个规则倘若存在，是不是仅限于", ving"表伴随时?" I would be cautious in saying that.... Frankly, I would not consider this a rule and remember it; rather I would make my own judgement based on the particular sentence that I am facing, i.e. based on case-by-case logic. This approach would make SC study much simpler. As Ron and a lot of NN abroad agree, there are only a handful of rules in GMAT SC.  So, just make it simple. Logically speaking, Occam's Razor (<a href="http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html" target="_blank">http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html</a>) applies here.

mongmong · 发表于 2012-4-5 10:43:30

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yeah, exactly! u r welcome<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /><div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/3/23 8:36:11)</div> 
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 baby, 请问OG-21的选项D及E是因为不符合下面的哪个原则而不能在句末跟", drawing"吗？因为关于D选项时态的解释显然和OG-78自相矛盾。 (A) it MODIFIES THE ENTIRE ACTION of the preceding clause, and it APPLIES TO THE SUBJECT of that clause; AND (B) one of the following is true: (1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action; - i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly (2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action. - i got a 100 on the most recent exam,bringing my average up to 91<div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 mongmong (2012/4/4 18:47:50)</div> 
</div>
 (B) one of the following is true: (1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action; - i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly (2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action. - i got a 100 on the most recent exam,bringing my average up to 91 不符合以上我highlight的文字。你不妨仔细体会一下，是否simultaneous with?是否"direct and immediate consequence"?相信你能体会到。 Again，我认为这不是rule，不是说把Ron这段话背下来就能保证v-ing不出错。你随便找一篇NYT, economist, etc.上的文章，我敢说这里面几乎不可能没有"comma + v-ing"。因为这个结构在英语里太常见了！看多了，判断思路就是：句子想表达什么意思？ok，理解了句意，那么这个意思用"comma + v-ing"表达是否makes sense? 比如OG-21的D和E就都不make sense. 但是，我觉得你问的问题非常好，要感谢你<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /> 因为看你的提的这个问题，我才明白了为什么那么多同学会坚持跟我说什么“主句是完成时，那么就不能接comma+v-ing"。原来都是来源于OG-21 D/E。 但，我要谴责xdf，那说法误人子弟！OG没错，但xdf这说法是属于只抓住皮毛，而未抓住精髓。为什么？咱从时态角度来分析。 Having read a bunch of Ron's threads on v-ing and verb tense, I conceive of v-ing is such that: IF v-ing serves as a verb form, i.e. not a gerund or an adj. THEN the v-ing action is attached to the pertinent time frame. Speaking of "time frame", I mean - somewhat similar to the reference frame in physics: we always define the reference frame (with respect to the observer) when working with any mechanics problem.  Same principle applies to the verb tense issue in the English language. Here I provide some simple examples: Example 1: when is the action of "cleaning the street" taken place in each of the following cases? I saw a man cleaning the street. I see a man cleaning the street. I will see a man cleaning the street. Example 2: OG-12 QUESTION 95, correct sentence as below: The peaks of a mountain range, acting like rocks in a streambed, produce ripples in the air flowing over them; the resulting flow pattern, with crests and troughs that remain stationary although the air that forms them is moving rapidly, is known as “standing waves.” Question: why does the author use "is moving" not "moves"? See here for Ron's response: <a href="http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html" target="_blank">http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html </a> 以上两个例子，是想说明一个很重要的concept，关于v-ing: the v-ing action is attached to the pertinent time frame 基于此，你就能理解Ron说的：为什么要是simultaneous，或者要是immediate consequence？ 就是因为必须是attached to the time frame!!!! 那么看OG12 Q21 的D/E选项： Neuroscientists have amassed bla bla over the past 20 yrs, now drawing bla bla. 见上句的highlighting，这两个动作所在的time frames根本就不同，相当于力学里我们在A参照系里研究事件X、然后又在B参照系里研究事件Y，所以就压根不能用v-ing来表述后面那个事件，因为后面那个事件根本就CANNOT be attached to the time frame A. 这就是为什么OG说的是： The final descriptor in present tense, now drawing conclusions … does not fit the opening clause, which is in present-perfect tense (have amassed a wealth …) 而根本不是像xdf那么归纳的所谓"v-ing"不能连完成时。他们只能看到外衣，没能体察灵魂！ 对比一下OG12 Q78 Fossils of the arm of a sloth, found in Puerto Rico in 1991, have been dated at 34 million years old, making the sloth the earliest known mammal on the Greater Antilles Islands. 看看这里, 就是attached to the pertinent time frame。对不对？"making ..."这个事件是和"have been dated"这个事件位于同一个time frame. 所以说这里v-ing就是makes sense. 而不能说什么v-ing就不能跟着完成时。 <a href="http://www.beatthegmat.com/the-peaks-of-a-mountain-range-t12830-15.html" target="_blank"></a><div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/5 7:18:32)</div> 
</div>
 Thanks baby <img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" /> 我其实还有疑问: 关于OG-21题的DE选项和78题的时态的矛盾，我觉得是不是这样的： 1) 关于78题, 我们可以确认的是,一,从句子意思上分析，“making ...” 不表伴随, 表结果, 二,其主句时态是完成时态； 2) 21题", drawing..."不表伴随（从句子意义上分析，having amassed a wealth of knowledge 不可以要求drawing solid conclusions伴随）； 3) 21题", drawing"也不能表结果, 原因有三个， 一是1)推理来的<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" />, 二是我感觉句末表结果的verb通常是“无实意的动词”比如bringing (the number of ... to 34)-OG47, making (the sloth the earliest known mammal...)-OG78. 如果是drawing solid conclusions这样的“实意的动词”，就不适合做结果了。 三是来自<a href="http://forum.chasedream.com/space/601410.html" target="_blank">99qiuqiu</a>的解释，我觉得也有参考意义: “now drawing 和drawing 在语气上是有区别的，作者有强调后面句子的intent，所以are now drawing 是main verb.” http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-695474-1-1.html?postid=16132153&searchmode=TopicContent&searchtext=Neuroscientists%20havin#last 我疑问地是，主句是完成时时，",ving" 在句末是错误的这个规则倘若存在，是不是仅限于", ving"表伴随时? 我觉得关于完成时态后面不能跟,ving的说法很奇怪，那为什么独独只对完成时有这个要求，一般过去时也是描述过去发生的事，就可以跟,ving。看了baby给出的解释和例子,有点明白了。<div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 mongmong (2012/4/5 9:27:58)</div> 
</div>
 我觉得你说的关于这两道OG题目的这些123点很有道理啊，没错就这样的。 "我疑问地是，主句是完成时时，",ving" 在句末是错误的这个规则倘若存在，是不是仅限于", ving"表伴随时?" I would be cautious in saying that.... Frankly, I would not consider this a rule and remember it; rather I would make my own judgement based on the particular sentence that I am facing, i.e. based on case-by-case logic. This approach would make SC study much simpler. As Ron and a lot of NN abroad agree, there are only a handful of rules in GMAT SC.  So, just make it simple. Logically speaking, Occam's Razor (<a href="http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html" target="_blank">http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html</a>) applies here.<div style="text-align:right;">-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/5 10:05:32)</div> 
</div>
 多谢Baby<img src="/static/legacy-emoticon/0.gif" emoticon="[em:0]" alt="" />

zhongshanlh · 发表于 2012-4-7 19:37:22

这个帖子要被发展成为v-ing专业户了。。。。 再贴一道题目 OG12 102.  As rainfall began to decrease in the Southwest the middle of the twelfth century, most of the Monument Valley Anasazi abandoned their homes to join other clans whose access to water wasLess limited. (A) whose access to water was less limited (B) where there was access to water that was less limited (C) where they had less limited water access (D) with less limitations on water access (E) having less limitations to water access 关于这个题目中的E选项，如果我们是掉E选项中的其他错误（less的问题，limitations on的问题，water access的问题），仅仅是考虑这里的v-ing的用法，那么这个v-ing的用法是正确的吧？作为noun modifier修饰其紧跟的clans？是不是就可以理解为clans 的定语了？

zhongshanlh · 发表于 2012-4-7 21:04:16

再贴一道定语的题目 OG12 104 104. El Nino, the periodic abnormal warming of the sea surface off Peru, a phenomenon in which changes in the ocean and atmosphere combine allowing the warm water that has accumulated in the western Pacific to flow back to the east. (A) a phenomenon in which changes in the ocean and atmosphere combine allowing the warm water that has accumulated (B) a phenomenon where changes in the ocean and atmosphere are combining to allow the warm water that is accumulating (C) a phenomenon in which ocean and atmosphere changes combine and which allows the warm water that is accumulated (D) is a phenomenon in which changes in the ocean and atmosphere combine to allow the warm water that has accumulated (E) is a phenomenon where ocean and atmosphere changes are combining and allow the warm water accumulating 其他的不用管，我们看E选项中最后的accumulating，同正确选项D中的that has accumulating相比而言，这里的accumulating语法上我个人觉得没有问题，唯一不好的就是体现不出来has完成时这个动作了，不过严格来说，这个还是不算错的

zhongshanlh · 发表于 2012-4-7 21:32:02

还是上面的OG12 104题，还想问一下大家对A中的allowing的看法？？

关于Ving用法—og12 sc 中21和og25比较，有点迷惑了

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