2011届全美MBA投行暑期实习统计贴

REgirl07

謝謝謝謝！

其實我只是想問通過mba,把工作地點switch from hk to nyc的機率大不大。。。？

thx thx!

-- by 会员 lichenkan (2010/5/9 22:36:03)

It's a lot harder now than several years earlier.  Back then, bankers who simply had an interest in Asia could go there and do an easy transfer, and vice versa.  But as Asia's (especially China) economy grew, they started hiring people specifically for the local markets, which usually means Chinese who were educated abroad but can still read/write/speak Mandarin.  As a result, people who work in the HK office now days are a lot more localized or "chinese" than their peers in NYC, and international transfers have decreased significantly due to the divergence in group cultures.  You may be a good analyst/associate in HK, but why would groups in the U.S. hire you when they can get fratty white guys that are a dime a dozen and are a better cultural fit?

In general, I think people tend to have a naive idea about working in the U.S.  Forget about all that equality, justice, and whatever crap.  The same kind of corporate politics, brown-nosing, and unfair competitions are prevalent here as well.  If you want to get international experience, then go for it.  But if you hate your job/company/career and think that working in the U.S. will solve any of that, you are sorely mistaken.  Let me be honest/a bit harsh here: most people who can't make it in their native environment/culture will have an even harder time making it in a foreign country.  Of course, some people have very good reasons to make the move, and this does not apply to them.  Just wanted to provide a word of caution for others...

lichenkan

謝謝謝謝！

其實我只是想問通過mba,把工作地點switch from hk to nyc的機率大不大。。。？

thx thx!

-- by 会员 lichenkan (2010/5/9 22:36:03)

It's a lot harder now than several years earlier.  Back then, bankers who simply had an interest in Asia could go there and do an easy transfer, and vice versa.  But as Asia's (especially China) economy grew, they started hiring people specifically for the local markets, which usually means Chinese who were educated abroad but can still read/write/speak Mandarin.  As a result, people who work in the HK office now days are a lot more localized or "chinese" than their peers in NYC, and international transfers have decreased significantly due to the divergence in group cultures.  You may be a good analyst/associate in HK, but why would groups in the U.S. hire you when they can get fratty white guys that are a dime a dozen and are a better cultural fit?

In general, I think people tend to have a naive idea about working in the U.S.  Forget about all that equality, justice, and whatever crap.  The same kind of corporate politics, brown-nosing, and unfair competitions are prevalent here as well.  If you want to get international experience, then go for it.  But if you hate your job/company/career and think that working in the U.S. will solve any of that, you are sorely mistaken.  Let me be a honest/bit harsh here: most people who can't make it in their native environment/culture will have an even harder time making it in a foreign country.  Of course, some people have very good reasons to make the move, and this does not apply to them.  Just wanted to provide a word of caution for others...

-- by 会员 REgirl07 (2010/5/10 17:25:34)

thanks! Your perspective is really illuminating. Honestly, I just love US, the country... and hope that I can make a life there. But I don't want to totally ruin my career, and do some like plate-washing jobs in US. Otherwise, it would be much better for me to stay and work in HK, and be a permanent resident here later... So kind of estimating the chance that I can make a decent life in US now... and want to gain some advices from veterans, like you.=) thx a lot!

michaelchenma

我几年前听说的（在2008年recession之前），香港投行的base pay可能虽然和NYC的差不多，但是bonus却少很多，当时香港那帮人觉得特别的不服。能confirm或deny一下这个说法吗？谢谢！

REgirl07第二段对美国就业的分析真是一针见血啊。

It's a lot harder now than several years earlier.  Back then, bankers who simply had an interest in Asia could go there and do an easy transfer, and vice versa.  But as Asia's (especially China) economy grew, they started hiring people specifically for the local markets, which usually means Chinese who were educated abroad but can still read/write/speak Mandarin.  As a result, people who work in the HK office now days are a lot more localized or "chinese" than their peers in NYC, and international transfers have decreased significantly due to the divergence in group cultures.  You may be a good analyst/associate in HK, but why would groups in the U.S. hire you when they can get fratty white guys that are a dime a dozen and are a better cultural fit?

In general, I think people tend to have a naive idea about working in the U.S.  Forget about all that equality, justice, and whatever crap.  The same kind of corporate politics, brown-nosing, and unfair competitions are prevalent here as well.  If you want to get international experience, then go for it.  But if you hate your job/company/career and think that working in the U.S. will solve any of that, you are sorely mistaken.  Let me be a honest/bit harsh here: most people who can't make it in their native environment/culture will have an even harder time making it in a foreign country.  Of course, some people have very good reasons to make the move, and this does not apply to them.  Just wanted to provide a word of caution for others...

-- by 会员 REgirl07 (2010/5/10 17:25:34)

michaelchenma

Love U.S, enjoy U.S life是有代价的，恐怕到时候你就不愿意付这个代价。

thanks! Your perspective is really illuminating. Honestly, I just love US, the country... and hope that I can make a life there. But I don't want to totally ruin my career, and do some like plate-washing jobs in US. Otherwise, it would be much better for me to stay and work in HK, and be a permanent resident here later... So kind of estimating the chance that I can make a decent life in US now... and want to gain some advices from veterans, like you.=) thx a lot!

-- by 会员 lichenkan (2010/5/10 17:59:24)

stq

我几年前听说的（在2008年recession之前），香港投行的base pay可能虽然和NYC的差不多，但是bonus却少很多，当时香港那帮人觉得特别的不服。能confirm或deny一下这个说法吗？谢谢！

-- by 会员 michaelchenma (2010/5/11 1:38:19)

不会啊。。
08年前香港做了不少大型国企上市，赚大了。。
而且香港还有房贴，纽约住房那叫一个贵。
更不要说还有将近20%的个人所得税差距，将近10%的消费税差距。。

michaelchenma

我也是听说的。我认识的那个人虽然在GS，但是却不是投行部，是equity research。

纽约没有房补吗？天呢。。。不过香港投行付薪水应该是用港币吧？这几年人民币升值，他们岂不是非常不爽？

我觉得我问题好多。。。

不会啊。。
08年前香港做了不少大型国企上市，赚大了。。
而且香港还有房贴，纽约住房那叫一个贵。
更不要说还有将近20%的个人所得税差距，将近10%的消费税差距。。

-- by 会员 stq (2010/5/11 1:53:08)

REgirl07

我也是听说的。我认识的那个人虽然在GS，但是却不是投行部，是equity research。

纽约没有房补吗？天呢。。。不过香港投行付薪水应该是用港币吧？这几年人民币升值，他们岂不是非常不爽？

我觉得我问题好多。。。

-- by 会员 michaelchenma (2010/5/11 2:01:04)

There is no housing stipend in NYC, which really sucks considering $2k a month there gets you a tiny place.  The housing stipend for HK is a historical legacy - back in the 80s - early 90's, HK was considered more "backwater" compared to NYC/London, so banks had to give people really generous expat packages to get them to go out there.  Of course, now days a lot of people WANT to go to HK, but the stipend has stayed.  I wouldn't be surprised if it goes away in the next few years.

As for pay, base pay is global for all major investment banks (although I believe a few yrs ago they were paying Chinese passport holders less) and your overall income is probably about the same, accounting for lower income taxes, etc in HK.  The issue you brought up is really about bonus.  Usually bonus comp is determined by the guys sitting in NYC, so every branch office, including HK/SH or even SF or LA, has an inherent disadvantage in that the senior people in NYC just don't know you as well.  As a result, they don't push as hard for you, and it becomes harder for you to get top bucket (again, after a certain performance threshold, it's all politics).  Although now days the business in Asia is much more independent, and they usually have their own bonus pool and compensation review process, which would eliminate much of that disadvantage.

REgirl07

thanks! Your perspective is really illuminating. Honestly, I just love US, the country... and hope that I can make a life there. But I don't want to totally ruin my career, and do some like plate-washing jobs in US. Otherwise, it would be much better for me to stay and work in HK, and be a permanent resident here later... So kind of estimating the chance that I can make a decent life in US now... and want to gain some advices from veterans, like you.=) thx a lot!

-- by 会员 lichenkan (2010/5/10 17:59:24)

Well, what do you love about it?  If you love the environment, the more tranquil suburban life, and stuff like that, then you will likely be happier about the sacrifices you would have to make.  But if you love America because of this vague, unrealistic idea that it's somehow more equal, fair, and "free" than China (which a lot of people on these forums think), then you will soon realize that a lot of the freedom and opportunities here are reserved for the wealthy and the pedigreed, which really isn't all that different than China.      

I think people have reasonable success when they come here and do "stable" but lower income jobs such as accounting or engineering (engineering is getting outsourced too, so who knows).  In terms of finance, it's really, really hard for a Chinese person to break through the glass ceiling (assoc level and above).  Besides some quant trading/HF roles, the rest of finance is really more relationship driven than analysis driven.  eople who excel in the relationship business are usually the white males that went to prep school, went to a top undergrad college, and grew up playing golf in a country club his entire life.  You may think that you can work better than those guys or are smarter than them, and you are probably right.  But regardless, they will be the ones that make MDs and partners.  I don't want to discourage anyone, but you need to think about stuff like this before you make such a big decision.

hissom

thanks! Your perspective is really illuminating. Honestly, I just love US, the country... and hope that I can make a life there. But I don't want to totally ruin my career, and do some like plate-washing jobs in US. Otherwise, it would be much better for me to stay and work in HK, and be a permanent resident here later... So kind of estimating the chance that I can make a decent life in US now... and want to gain some advices from veterans, like you.=) thx a lot!

-- by 会员 lichenkan (2010/5/10 17:59:24)

Well, what do you love about it?  If you love the environment, the more tranquil suburban life, and stuff like that, then you will likely be happier about the sacrifices you would have to make.  But if you love America because of this vague, unrealistic idea that it's somehow more equal, fair, and "free" than China (which a lot of people on these forums think), then you will soon realize that a lot of the freedom and opportunities here are reserved for the wealthy and the pedigreed, which really isn't all that different than China.      

I think people have reasonable success when they come here and do "stable" but lower income jobs such as accounting or engineering (engineering is getting outsourced too, so who knows).  In terms of finance, it's really, really hard for a Chinese person to break through the glass ceiling (assoc level and above).  Besides some quant trading/HF roles, the rest of finance is really more relationship driven than analysis driven.  eople who excel in the relationship business are usually the white males that went to prep school, went to a top undergrad college, and grew up playing golf in a country club his entire life.  You may think that you can work better than those guys or are smarter than them, and you are probably right.  But regardless, they will be the ones that make MDs and partners.  I don't want to discourage anyone, but you need to think about stuff like this before you make such a big decision.

-- by 会员 REgirl07 (2010/5/11 2:54:09)

totally agree.

stq

Well, what do you love about it?  If you love the environment, the more tranquil suburban life, and stuff like that, then you will likely be happier about the sacrifices you would have to make.  But if you love America because of this vague, unrealistic idea that it's somehow more equal, fair, and "free" than China (which a lot of people on these forums think), then you will soon realize that a lot of the freedom and opportunities here are reserved for the wealthy and the pedigreed, which really isn't all that different than China.      

I think people have reasonable success when they come here and do "stable" but lower income jobs such as accounting or engineering (engineering is getting outsourced too, so who knows).  In terms of finance, it's really, really hard for a Chinese person to break through the glass ceiling (assoc level and above).  Besides some quant trading/HF roles, the rest of finance is really more relationship driven than analysis driven.  eople who excel in the relationship business are usually the white males that went to prep school, went to a top undergrad college, and grew up playing golf in a country club his entire life.  You may think that you can work better than those guys or are smarter than them, and you are probably right.  But regardless, they will be the ones that make MDs and partners.  I don't want to discourage anyone, but you need to think about stuff like this before you make such a big decision.

-- by 会员 REgirl07 (2010/5/11 2:54:09)

totally agree..
不过话说回来，中国也是一样。投行也好，PE也好，大把大把太子党。一样是看出身看关系背景吃饭的地方。。。
没点背景光凭个人努力搞不定大型国企的。。