Ask Jason@沃顿 (my essays inside!) Free essay advice again~

topmba2009

Hey bro, I can sort of feel the hard feelings. You know, lots of CDers, including me, do appreciate your longtime contribution to encourage us, inspire us, and correct us.

One person's opinion about whether you represent UChicago or not doesn't achieve the intended objective because 1) we know what your record is, and most importantly 2) you know even better. And of course, everyone knows that, attacking a personal quality in any debate is a logical fallacy. You can safely ignore that, although the feelings associated with the negative arguments may sow a seed of unfriendliness.

You can't be more sensitive than me because Pisces are probably the most sensitive ones in all 12 zodiac, and you are not one of them. (Yes, I know....I believe in this crap and worse, I am one little Pisces, lol).

So cheer up, bro! Smoothly handling negative attacks or comments is a must-have trait for anyone wants to do something larger than himself. Think about Obama..... You shall overcome this!

cannedpineapple

Thanks Dan. It is good to be appreciated, particularly when it comes from the CDers that spend their own also valuable time to carefully read and reflect.

What I can't stand most is when someone makes snap 5 minute judgments, because they think their own time is too valuable to spend more time reflecting (which is fine- if your time is so valuable, go do something else, and just don't post), yet they also have such a self-centered view of themselves that they think that everyone should spend careful time reflecting and reading their own 5 minute posts. And when we find something to disagree about.. "oh, I only spent 5 minutes on this, sigh I am so busy, you can't blame me, if I spent more time I will be entirely correct because obviously I am smarter than you and I cannot ever get this wrong."

Anyway, this is just venting. I'm only human, I get pissed too Again, really glad to know you appreciate my efforts. It's comments like these that make me feel that giving my time on CD is worth the effort.

Handling negative attacks is a must-have trait, agreed: but if I had ignored this, then this wouldn't have been very different from windboy's "oh I'm going to ignore you because you're not worth my time". Windboy: I think that you are worth my time. You are obviously very smart, and very good at statistics and economics... But there are other areas in which I believe you have gone too far. Perhaps, just as I still have much to learn about stats and economics, perhaps you too have some things that you could still learn about.

Jason

cannedpineapple

A reminder to would-be applicants... Come and read my other thread on essay feedback!

http://forum.chasedream.com/North_American_MBA/thread-432149-1-2.html


Jason

cannedpineapple

One thing I find when many students write "why abc school", is that they simply don't give good reasons. They simply give a reason that could be any school. For instance, "many great alumni"- which school doesn't have this? Or, for instance, "international programmes". Again, every school has this.

Instead, one good approach is to pretend you are preparing a powerpoint slide for your boss: "why ABC school", and you need to create a graph showing the differences between the schools. Does it make sense to create a graph showing # of alumni? No. Does it make sense to create a graph showing "internationality of programme?" Again no. So what DOES make sense, that can be quantified between different schools?

Things like: "# of students". Some schools (eg. Wharton, HBS) are big. Some (eg. Stanford) are small. Things like: "location". These are things that it is clear that one school cannot be the same as all other schools in.

Put another way, you should not think about what the school has. Instead, think about the factors that the school is GIVING UP. So if Wharton has 800 students, we can't have 300 students. You just can't have both. A bigger school can have more resources and a more vibrant life, but GIVES UP a close-knit environment and a more family-like feeling. Similarly, a school can't be both in New York (eg. Columbia) and Boston (eg. MIT) at once. By being in New York, Columbia students might be GIVING UP the tranquility of Boston. Another example: by being completely case-driven, HBS is GIVING UP the benefits of a straightforward lecture, which might indeed better suit certain subjects/ certain topics/ certain students.

In contrast, a school can have both international and non-international programmes. Adding one doesn't subtract from another. So any school can add as much as they want. A school can also add as many clubs as it want (hence, an applicant writing "I will join xyz club" is not a good reason, since any other school could easily just set up that club). Similarly, classes. A school can always hire a new professor to teach a specific class. So "I like abc class" is not a good reason.

A student's task is to think about where a school has to make trade-offs and compromises, and understand whether the particular trade-offs the school has made.. are in their favour. If no trade-offs have to be made, then the school can always add these things in. Schools do not differentiate themselves by adding things that any other school could easily add.


So think not about what YOU like about the school. But think about what the school likes about itself. Think about where it has had to make 'sacrifices' because it can't be two things at once. Those are the reasons that make good "why"s.

PS: this is not different from what I was talking about earlier. Just as you differentiate yourself through your weaknesses, so too do schools.

wordance

One thing I find when many students write "why abc school", is that they simply don't give good reasons. They simply give a reason that could be any school. For instance, "many great alumni"- which school doesn't have this? Or, for instance, "international programmes". Again, every school has this.

Instead, one good approach is to pretend you are preparing a powerpoint slide for your boss: "why ABC school", and you need to create a graph showing the differences between the schools. Does it make sense to create a graph showing # of alumni? No. Does it make sense to create a graph showing "internationality of programme?" Again no. So what DOES make sense, that can be quantified between different schools?

Things like: "# of students". Some schools (eg. Wharton, HBS) are big. Some (eg. Stanford) are small. Things like: "location". These are things that it is clear that one school cannot be the same as all other schools in.

Put another way, you should not think about what the school has. Instead, think about the factors that the school is GIVING UP. So if Wharton has 800 students, we can't have 300 students. You just can't have both. A bigger school can have more resources and a more vibrant life, but GIVES UP a close-knit environment and a more family-like feeling. Similarly, a school can't be both in New York (eg. Columbia) and Boston (eg. MIT) at once. By being in New York, Columbia students might be GIVING UP the tranquility of Boston. Another example: by being completely case-driven, HBS is GIVING UP the benefits of a straightforward lecture, which might indeed better suit certain subjects/ certain topics/ certain students.

In contrast, a school can have both international and non-international programmes. Adding one doesn't subtract from another. So any school can add as much as they want. A school can also add as many clubs as it want (hence, an applicant writing "I will join xyz club" is not a good reason, since any other school could easily just set up that club). Similarly, classes. A school can always hire a new professor to teach a specific class. So "I like abc class" is not a good reason.

A student's task is to think about where a school has to make trade-offs and compromises, and understand whether the particular trade-offs the school has made.. are in their favour. If no trade-offs have to be made, then the school can always add these things in. Schools do not differentiate themselves by adding things that any other school could easily add.
So think not about what YOU like about the school. But think about what the school likes about itself. Think about where it has had to make 'sacrifices' because it can't be two things at once. Those are the reasons that make good "why"s.

PS: this is not different from what I was talking about earlier. Just as you differentiate yourself through your weaknesses, so too do schools.

-- by 会员 jelt2359 (2010/1/26 15:04:52)

thanks jason, this is indeed enlightening, especially when i writing my 2nd love letter to chicago booth this week

really learnt a lot from you. You reminds me of one of my favorite movie quotes: "I always knew what the right path was, without exception I knew. But I never took it. You know why? Because it's SO--DAMN--HARD." I have always admired people who go to great lengths to take the right path--because myself can't take it all the time--and you are certainly one of them. Looking at the help you extended to the aspirants and the advice you gave on this forum, I can't help wondering what CD will become without people like you. It is you guys and the spirit you embody that makes CD such a wonderful and motivating place. I personally thank you for that..

Cova

One thing I find when many students write "why abc school", is that they simply don't give good reasons. They simply give a reason that could be any school. For instance, "many great alumni"- which school doesn't have this? Or, for instance, "international programmes". Again, every school has this.

Instead, one good approach is to pretend you are preparing a powerpoint slide for your boss: "why ABC school", and you need to create a graph showing the differences between the schools. Does it make sense to create a graph showing # of alumni? No. Does it make sense to create a graph showing "internationality of programme?" Again no. So what DOES make sense, that can be quantified between different schools?

Things like: "# of students". Some schools (eg. Wharton, HBS) are big. Some (eg. Stanford) are small. Things like: "location". These are things that it is clear that one school cannot be the same as all other schools in.

Put another way, you should not think about what the school has. Instead, think about the factors that the school is GIVING UP. So if Wharton has 800 students, we can't have 300 students. You just can't have both. A bigger school can have more resources and a more vibrant life, but GIVES UP a close-knit environment and a more family-like feeling. Similarly, a school can't be both in New York (eg. Columbia) and Boston (eg. MIT) at once. By being in New York, Columbia students might be GIVING UP the tranquility of Boston. Another example: by being completely case-driven, HBS is GIVING UP the benefits of a straightforward lecture, which might indeed better suit certain subjects/ certain topics/ certain students.

In contrast, a school can have both international and non-international programmes. Adding one doesn't subtract from another. So any school can add as much as they want. A school can also add as many clubs as it want (hence, an applicant writing "I will join xyz club" is not a good reason, since any other school could easily just set up that club). Similarly, classes. A school can always hire a new professor to teach a specific class. So "I like abc class" is not a good reason.

A student's task is to think about where a school has to make trade-offs and compromises, and understand whether the particular trade-offs the school has made.. are in their favour. If no trade-offs have to be made, then the school can always add these things in. Schools do not differentiate themselves by adding things that any other school could easily add.
So think not about what YOU like about the school. But think about what the school likes about itself. Think about where it has had to make 'sacrifices' because it can't be two things at once. Those are the reasons that make good "why"s.

PS: this is not different from what I was talking about earlier. Just as you differentiate yourself through your weaknesses, so too do schools.

-- by 会员 jelt2359 (2010/1/26 15:04:52)

ahhhh I wish I had read it earlier....(which is impossible given Jason just posted today....)

Anyway, future applicants will benefit from Jason's posts a lot more than we do this year, as Jason grow older and become wiser and more prolific.....

cannedpineapple

Thanks guys

BTW, when I applied to Wharton, I did not know- and so did not speak to- a single Wharton-connected student or alumni. Instead I took everything I needed from the website, using the logic that I've mentioned above.

PS, the fact that there is logic involved in this should give you a hint as to why schools ask this. They don't ask it for nothing. They ask it because they want to see how you think, how you make decisions. What better way than to ask you to explain this decision, that you've probably spent a lot of time thinking about?

PPS, I hope I'm beginning to show that there is MUCH MUCH more to the essays. These are infinitely more important for the school to judge who you are, than factors like 'gmat, work experience', and so on. Many factors can affect one's gmat and work- not least of all, luck. But by forcing you to show who you are in the way you choose to write the essays, schools learn a lot more about you than most applicants realise.

Jason

cannedpineapple

Someone asked why some students may get into some schools but not others. "每年都有进了A家不进B家的牛人，是不是每个学校偏好的criteria还不一样呢？"

I said this:

"Of course. That's why fit is important. But also some people simply 'screw up' their essays or interviews for different schools. Which, BTW, should tell you that it makes no sense to say that 'xyz school is the best'. Students there may simply have been lucky.

Anyway, the admission criteria for Wharton is clear. How to get there is perhaps less so.

http://www.accepted.com/chat/Transcripts/2009/mba08262009_wharton.aspx

"a good fit for Wharton would be as follows: We look for people who are intellectually curious, who ask "why" a lot, who want to make a positive change, who like to work with other people, who like tackling complex difficult problems, who see the current economic "crisis" as an opportunity, who wants to be "in the game" as opposed to "watching the game," who will make Wharton and their classmates better, and who ultimately will make the world better."

source: JJ culter.

Since one of the most difficult problems anyone can deal with is to be honest to yourself (eg. Interviewer: "why do you want banking?" You: "I want banking because..." Interviewer: watch your body language to see if you're bullshitting), that's why they ask these questions.

There are literally a million ways to try to see if someone has this "Wharton mindset". Look at your leadership style. Look at the way you carry yourself in the interview. Look at the way you answer questions, and whether I think you're being evasive or honest. See if you're merely confident, or instead cocky and arrogant. And so on.

Don't forget that a lot of communication is non-verbal. You may have a 'perfect answer', but it is my experience that a lot of people with 'perfect answers' (including 'perfect essays' or 'perfect interview qns') get dinged, because those answers were 'perfectly crafted' for them by alumni, friends, consultants. When they say it, they simply lack the honesty and passion to make those answers genuine.

Why do I bring this in? Well, for a question like this, it is just as important to think about "how you're saying something", and what that says about you. And well, unless you're really a fantastic speaker who can convince the adcom (who have interviewed thousands) that your 'perfect answer' is genuine.... Otherwise, go for a true answer. What is your true weakness? Perhaps you're too lazy sometimes? Perhaps you like to 'watch the game' rather than 'be in the game' (despite what Cutler says)?

The point is, the fact that you can recognise this... gives you a chance to start improving on it. And that's what they want to see."

Original thread here: http://forum.chasedream.com/North_American_MBA/thread-438358-1-1.html

dogshead

Thanks Jason for your so much information. I would like to know whether it is realistic for China mainland applicant to get admitted in Round 3 of Wharton.  due to certain reason，I dont  want to apply next year. so if  applying R3 is not feasible, I would give up having a try.

cannedpineapple

We do not have a pool. Your chances as a 'mainland Chinese student' applying to Wharton is the same as any other student applying to Wharton, regardless of which round.

That being said, R3 is the toughest round- for everyone. While we will always have slots in R3 for qualified applicants, we will have far fewer slots in R3. There is absolutely no reason why one of those slots couldn't go to you, though. The only certain thing is this: if you don't try, you definitely don't get in.

If you can't apply next year, then I would apply for R3 this year.