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cloudmist2004

没有确切消息前就不要“听说来”“听说去”了。

若真是有中国学生牵连进去了，我觉得责任也不完全在他们。我们更不应该在“背后”议论他们。看看咱们自己，多少人身上没有一点问题呢。这个事不能做为一个人是不是“正值”的标准（至少在对于我们这些不知情的人，还是少说话为好）。

adios

i can agree till the point of "责任也不完全在他们", but it is just funny to see that "看看咱们自己，多少人身上没有一点问题呢".

by the same logic, no one can even judge anything. because who can claim that he or she is pure?

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-4 7:44:58编辑过]

davidli8888

以下是引用cloudmist2004在2007-5-4 6:40:00的发言：

没有确切消息前就不要“听说来”“听说去”了。

若真是有中国学生牵连进去了，我觉得责任也不完全在他们。我们更不应该在“背后”议论他们。看看咱们自己，多少人身上没有一点问题呢。这个事不能做为一个人是不是“正值”的标准（至少在对于我们这些不知情的人，还是少说话为好）。

Alarm - Let us see the cheating in the eye of a foreign MBA tutor in China

Quote

 Old China Hand
        May 2, 2007 9:28 PM GMT
    

I would like more information on the international contingent of cheaters at Duke's b-school. Having taught at Chinese business schools over the past decade, I have seen these same sort of cheating become routine. Many if not most (and I am not exaggerating here) Chinese MBA's hire (via Internet sites) people to sit for their GMATs; on finals, it is common for students to leave to answer telephone calls; peering over shoulders is routine; and in executive classes, top executives regularly delegate their exam questions to underlings. What we are seeing at Duke is simply and internationalization of business school ethics.

Unquote

sendme

以下是引用davidli8888在2007-5-4 7:53:00的发言：

Alarm - Let us see the cheating in the eye of a foreign MBA tutor in China

Quote

 Old China Hand
  May 2, 2007 9:28 PM GMT
 

I would like more information on the international contingent of cheaters at Duke's b-school. Having taught at Chinese business schools over the past decade, I have seen these same sort of cheating become routine. Many if not most (and I am not exaggerating here) Chinese MBA's hire (via Internet sites) people to sit for their GMATs; on finals, it is common for students to leave to answer telephone calls; peering over shoulders is routine; and in executive classes, top executives regularly delegate their exam questions to underlings. What we are seeing at Duke is simply and internationalization of business school ethics.

Unquote

shocked.. but no comments.. any current MBA students say something?

yorkzhong

以下是引用adios在2007-5-4 7:35:00的发言：

i can agree till the point of "责任也不完全在他们", but it is just funny to see that "看看咱们自己，多少人身上没有一点问题呢".

by the same logic, no one can even judge anything. because who can claim that he or she is pure?

i can agree till the point of "责任也不完全在他们",  --- definetely, 入乡随俗，到了美国要守美国的规矩。

QYT

入乡随俗也要了解怎么随啊，下手太狠了，其实这事学校也应该承担责任，平时应该加强教育，比如当教授发现作业有抄袭情况后就应该及时做出反馈，给些警告，让大家都知道其中厉害，情况就不会恶化了。突然严打这么一下，感觉是矫枉过正。而且对正撞枪口的人来说不太公平。

出点主意吧，现在可以跟学校argue的一点是：在开学时学校有没有针对Honor Code的workshop，有没有强调Honor Code的性质和严重后果，有没有在学生平时学习中就建立好这个共识。这点对之前没有Honor Code系统和take-home exam经验的学生非常重要。

Bless all!

sendme

以下是引用QYT在2007-5-6 1:53:00的发言：

入乡随俗也要了解怎么随啊，下手太狠了，其实这事学校也应该承担责任，平时应该加强教育，比如当教授发现作业有抄袭情况后就应该及时做出反馈，给些警告，让大家都知道其中厉害，情况就不会恶化了。突然严打这么一下，感觉是矫枉过正。而且对正撞枪口的人来说不太公平。

出点主意吧，现在可以跟学校argue的一点是：在开学时学校有没有针对Honor Code的workshop，有没有强调Honor Code的性质和严重后果，有没有在学生平时学习中就建立好这个共识。这点对之前没有Honor Code系统和take-home exam经验的学生非常重要。

Bless all!

support, bless all of them..

yesterday, one north california college had completed ain investigation--- 74 college students are guilty in cheating and changing the score by paying money. some changed the score from F to A by using $600.  and some students have already trsnsfered to other university.  all 74 will face a big problem when they walk in the society. but they deserve  it.

back to the case in Duke, i copied one Duke student 东岸老男人 who just graduated.

知道这事情有一些日子了。因为有一个很close的朋友也是DUKER，聊了许多。

第一，这件事情是个耻辱。绝对有损DUKE毕业生的声誉。

第二，这个事情不是有意针对中国学生。

第三，这些人作弊的方法太过露骨，证据确凿。

第四，今年DUKE毕业分配形势非常好，这个好是在作弊事件发生之前。

第五，作为一个在美国的DUKE毕业生，都希望将来来美国的中国同学，不要做这种有损中国人声誉的事情。说实话，并不是因为考试特别难，或者考试特别刁难中国学生。

第六，必须承认美国媒体在这件事情上还是客观公众的，并没有扩大化和故意歪曲。但是美国老百姓是很单纯思想的人，只有在美国需要长期生存的中国人，才知道现实的压力和信誉的重要。

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I just learned something from this case.. but the pay is too high for some of our chinese students..

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-6 2:05:49编辑过]

face_to_face

仅从公开报道的内容说点儿自己的想法.

以下是引用sendme在2007-5-6 2:05:00的发言：

support, bless all of them..

yesterday, one north california college had completed ain investigation--- 74 college students are guilty in cheating and changing the score by paying money. some changed the score from F to A by using $600.  and some students have already trsnsfered to other university.  all 74 will face a big problem when they walk in the society. but they deserve  it.

back to the case in Duke, i copied one Duke student 东岸老男人 who just graduated.

知道这事情有一些日子了。因为有一个很close的朋友也是DUKER，聊了许多。

第一，这件事情是个耻辱。绝对有损DUKE毕业生的声誉。

有10%涉嫌cheating总不是好事, 但现在duke 毕业生可以堂堂正正的说: 1>duke是坚决维护道德标准的leader;2>在这么高标准严格要求下,我还survive, 我也不错. 似乎总的来说, pros还多点儿.

有一点实在不能理解的是: 学校为什么不等最后appeal完了再go public. 可能有什么压力; 否则对学校和对潜在涉嫌的人都没有好处.

第二，这个事情不是有意针对中国学生。

同意.没看到有国外媒体专门说这个是针对谁.老外一向对这个比较serious.

第三，这些人作弊的方法太过露骨，证据确凿。

这点不知如何看待. 似乎说:1).作弊也该聪明点儿啊.

第四，今年DUKE毕业分配形势非常好，这个好是在作弊事件发生之前。

没概念.

第五，作为一个在美国的DUKE毕业生，都希望将来来美国的中国同学，不要做这种有损中国人声誉的事情。说实话，并不是因为考试特别难，或者考试特别刁难中国学生。

基本理解. 老外总不至于专门给中国学生出套卷子吧.

第六，必须承认美国媒体在这件事情上还是客观公众的，并没有扩大化和故意歪曲。但是美国老百姓是很单纯思想的人，只有在美国需要长期生存的中国人，才知道现实的压力和信誉的重要。

可能是吧. 没发言权.

------------------------------------------

I just learned something from this case.. but the pay is too high for some of our chinese students..

adios

以下是引用face_to_face在2007-5-6 4:48:00的发言：

第一，这件事情是个耻辱。绝对有损DUKE毕业生的声誉。

有10%涉嫌cheating总不是好事, 但现在duke 毕业生可以堂堂正正的说: 1>duke是坚决维护道德标准的leader;2>在这么高标准严格要求下,我还survive, 我也不错. 似乎总的来说, pros还多点儿.

有一点实在不能理解的是: 学校为什么不等最后appeal完了再go public. 可能有什么压力; 否则对学校和对潜在涉嫌的人都没有好处.

i do not think this incident would have any serious impact to Duke or its graduates. period.

it is, however, hard to argue that such thing is good to Duke. it's just lame.

by the same logic, China could be proud of itself: each year we sentence 3,000+ criminals to death, can we say that China is the leader of 坚决维护法律标准? are you proud of being a survivor?

by any token, arguing this is a good thing would be a joke.

i can certainly understand that it is a serious blow to current MBA students' confidence level, at the same time i think many of them just over-reacted. why such a big deal?

something bad happened to the school and to those students got involved. that's it. good luck moving forward and let it be.

i do not see any link between the school reputation and the students.

btw i do not think that Duke wanted to get this news public, it was leaked to the local news by some Fuqua students.

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-5-6 7:27:06编辑过]