ChaseDream
搜索
12下一页
返回列表 发新帖
查看: 12594|回复: 18
打印 上一主题 下一主题

[学校信息] 想要留海外,关于欧洲(INSEAD)和美国(S16)的选校问题?

[复制链接]
跳转到指定楼层
楼主
发表于 2019-2-2 19:04:23 | 只看该作者 回帖奖励 |正序浏览 |阅读模式
CD上的大家好,

本人目前在工作上的原因遇到了瓶颈,所以希望去读MBA,读完MBA之后希望留在海外工作,进医药类企业。

目前有下面的考虑:

美国(S16):
Pros:
1. 薪资高
2. 英语工作环境
3. 比较方便转行
4.学校和工作经验认可度高
5. 华人更多

Cons:
1.价格昂贵
2.时间成本较高
3.工作需要抽签,有不确定性
4. 职业发展天花板相对欧洲高一点,但是也存在明显的天花板
5. 竞争激烈

欧洲(INSEAD):
Pros:
1.生活更舒服
2. 文化更和谐
3. 除了瑞士英国等地方,工作签证不是特别难

Cons:
1. 需要学习外语
2. 转行比较难
3. 时间太短不容易熟悉同学
4. 薪资不高
5. 职业发展天花板低

今天还看到关于欧洲学校的brand value的问题(好像抱怨的都是美国人,但是如果留欧应该不受影响?),请大家理性讨论下,对于我MBA后的目标,哪里的学校比较合适?怎样选学校比较合适?
P.S. 和INSEAD校友聊了下,蛮随和的

谢谢!


附上看到的争议:

As an INSEAD alumni I am always surprised at how highly INSEAD is ranked on the league tables. The INSEAD MBA has been a zero value add for me. INSEAD is a for profit school just like Hult or the University of Phoenix, INSEAD has all of the same issues and problems as any for profit school. Nobody has ever failed, you pay your fee you get your MBA.

Who owns INSEAD and are there any conflicts of interest? This should be investigated. The school is heavily orientated towards participants from strategy consultancies. The strategy consultants have on average 2 years of experience vs the non strategy students must have approx 7 years of experience. Could the owner of INSEAD be the partner in charge of education at one of the strategy consultancies? I made a mistake; I bought an intangible product from a seller I knew nothing about and that product was useless.

The first few days of INSEAD were interesting, I had many interesting discussions; but then the welcome week hazing event started. This consisted of the upper class playing a series of weird and often cruel pranks on the incoming class. For example; people were forced to fight each other and others were abandoned in the middle of the forest at night. This in a program were the average age is 28. This hazing ruined what might have otherwise been a good year. After the hazing event no one takes the school seriously. Since this hazing event was not listed on the brochure and this event negatively impacted my experience I feel that INSEAD was a bait and switch scam.

The final part of welcome week is the Dean's speech during which the Dean told us: 'INSEAD offers a general management MBA but if you want you can say that you have a specialization. If a background investigator calls the school, staff are trained to always answer 'yes'. You should try this; call INSEAD and ask does a specific alumni have an MBA with a concentration in Taxidermy or any other ridiculous subject, the school will say 'yes'!

After welcome week the place feels like a cult, no one will say anything against the school, facilities or social life. Descent is discouraged, those that fall foul of this rule can find themselves ostracized. People display symptoms of being brain washed. Hundreds of students, average age 28, get drunk in barns and tell each other that these are the best parties they have ever been to. However; one on one, in hushed tones, people said to me 'I thought I was the only one that didn't like the social life'.

The career service didn't seem to actually exist; there was an office labelled careers and there were people working there but it was a sham. The alleged career service did not even maintain student records, nor a job bank nor interview preparation materials. My undergraduate university offered this level of career services, I had expected INSEAD to exceed this standard. The careers services released reports on their own performance that read like North Korean harvest reports. In my promotion apparently a large percentage used the career service to find jobs and almost everyone changed career. We see the external
economist report contradicts these assertions. After graduation when you cannot get a job that is when the careers service start their victim blaming: 'you need to be more of an entrepreneur to get a job' or 'you didn't try hard enough'.

The actual education was a joke e.g. the finance professor stated 'the school has had feedback that some graduates don't know what bonds are; therefore, we'll spend the next 15 minutes on fixed income. Before INSEAD I had completed the CFA level 1 - I had expected my 'intense' INSEAD MBA to be a similar level of challenge to the CFA, INSEAD was trivial in comparison. The education was neither wide nor deep, the classes were pitched at the high school level.

The participants can be split into the following groups:

Wealthy global elite (top 0.1%)
Strategy consultants (non native English speakers)
Developing world (non elite,non strategy)
Developed world (non elite,non strategy)

The wealthy and strategy students are well served by the school. These people want to have a good time and get a rubber stamp MBA. Students from the developing world have language skills that will enable them to get jobs in growing markets that are underserved by other business schools. Developed world students get a very poor deal from INSEAD; the INSEAD MBA is just not sophisticated enough to compete in the MBA job market in the developed world. During INSEAD you will be a resource for other students, you will probably have more experience, be educated in leading universities and have a wealth of other experience. This will be sucked out of you and fed to people in the other groups. Employers will laugh at your MBA. Also INSEAD uses the word entrepreneur to mean unemployed. If you couldn't start a business before INSEAD how could you start a business upon graduation with all that debt?! Becoming an entrepreneur right after business school doesn't make sense; no pay for a year, spend $150,000, then start a business whilst servicing that debt?! INSEAD reports how many graduates go to the top consultancy firms; what they don't tell you is that almost all of those people are sponsored by those firms and already have those jobs. In reality very few people (1 or 2 in my class) get a new job upon graduation.

If you are there as a career changer from the developed world you are being scammed. You share your experience with the strategy consultant and family business students and when you graduate there are no jobs for you. The only logical explanation for the consistent large minority of students that do not do well post INSEAD, is that INSEAD is ripping of one group of students for the benefit of another.

INSEAD is constantly asking for donations - a 'for profit' business asking for donations! How is that not a scam?


US programs sending only a small percentage to other countries is much more about how great the US job market is right now and how high the compensation here is than about their "weak" track record at sending people abroad. Have you considered the possibility that graduates of US programs simply don't want to go abroad when they get a much better deal here? What this also means that if despite the higher comp and other perks, a US MBA wants to go abroad then they most likely can.
I also don't think INSEAD/LBS placements in the US vs. M7/T15 placements worldwide is a proper comparison because it is much more diffcult for non US MBA's (even those from LBS and INSEAD) to break into US companies than it is for US MBA's to break into companies in Europe or Asia. Part of it is because of the H1B lottery. The truth is that M7/T15 grads end up in the US mostly by choice. But you can still work internationally if you want. LBS or INSEAD will easily result in recruitment in Europe or Asia but will de facto shut you out of the US market for MBA's, which is likely larger than Europe & Asia combined. The choice thus becomes Easy US Recruitment with option to work in Asia/Europe vs. Easy Asia/Europe recruitment with no option to work in the US. I would take the former in a heartbeat.

I have serious doubts about the comment “In Europe, it's "INSEAD or Harvard".” This is probably a comment from someone who never spoke to Europeans in their native languages and for whom his classroom is equivalent to “Europe”.
I have stayed in France, Thailand, Australia, Germany, US, Algeria, Portugal, Spain, the Netherlands, and Russia. I can tell you that it is absolutely not possible to compare INSEAD with a Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Oxbridge kind of brand (thank you Nobel Laureates from associated universities).
Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge will be highly regarded woldwide (at least by anyone who learned English at some point) and this applies even in INSEAD’s home country: France (where INSEAD is unknown by the vast majority of citizen).
LBS and INSEAD will provide partial brands “where it matters” (banks+consulting). However please note that this whole brand thing does not really affect outcomes, apparently, as salaries and placements are quite similar for the top MBAs as well as M7+Oxbridge.
I do not deny trends such as kids dreaming about consulting will prefer INSEAD, mature future CFOs will prefer other schools but no school in the top MBAs will really close doors. In terms of international brand, however, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge are the safest you can go with.



I chose INSEAD over an American school and regret my decision. Am still trying to get my first post MBA job interview. INSEAD is an English as a second language school; the instruction progresses at a snail's pace to benefit the non native English speakers. Native English speakers graduate with less knowledge than competitors from other business schools whereas non native English speakers graduate into job markets with much less competition.

The INSEAD brand is very weak in the US, the network is extremely weak, have been to many events and rarely does the conversation move beyond work visas and accommodation. The US is a transitory place for many INSEADers and locals are treated like localization service providers. One recent arrival even suggested that my kids should befriend his for the duration of their stay! Given the fact that native English speakers are treated like TA's at INSEAD I can see why I am still treated like part of the service.

Am a disappointed insead alum, I spent a year job hunting in the U.S. after graduation; not a single interview. The insead brand has quite a bad reputation; a common reply in the U.S. was 'we tried someone from there in the past and that person did not meet expectations'.
Unfortunately, in the recent past many rich kid brat types landed jobs in the U.S. post insead. These brats treated their jobs like a work holiday program and now the insead brand name is mud.
If you want to work in the U.S. immediately after business school; get an American MBA. If in the future you want to relocate to Europe your most recent work experience will be the most important factor.
One question that I think you need to answer is what is the utility of a MBA to you? You have big4 experience, realistically you are not going to learn much at insead. Why do you think that you need an MBA? Prior to insead I was in operations at an Investment bank on the east coast. At insead I learnt nothing new, met no one and the alumni network is bunk - I just have MBA on my resume. Insead opened no doors for me.
The average inseader wears expensive jeans and polo shirts, has three Apple devices, is from a wealthy family and stands around discussing in accent-less English how diverse they are - just because they are from different countries!


Am also an American graduate from insead I too wish I had done a U.S. MBA. The insead MBA just doesn't 'work'. To me it is a defective product.
Here on the east coast those that know the product generally hold it in poor regard. Insead is known to produce entitled general management graduates, inseaders expect to sit on top of others just managing them. Today a general management qualification is antiquated. Many inseaders think that they are very special and do not need to try, this has unfortunately translated into very poor performance in the work place - resulting in poor brand reputation. The other big dent in insead's U.S. brand is the Wharton exchange. People from Wharton go to insead and report back to their cohorts that it's a party school.
If insead was actually an amazing place producing one thousand elite business people each year, wouldn't you hear the roar it would produce? Wouldn't the business press have insead stories every few days? Wouldn't there be much more success evident?
I have seen no positive impact on my life and the others from my class are on the same career trajectory as they were before business school.
Insead is a stand alone private tertiary school. In other schools one could go to the comp sci, or bio-eng department etc to work on ideas. That just doesn't exist at insead.
My biggest disappointment with insead has to be the network. Am yet to have a single useful discussion. I want to meet people through insead but people are very closed minded and do not want to meet others. For example the up coming insead alumni forum for the Americas, the main networking event is a masquerade party. How is it possible to network at a masquerade party? This is typical of insead culture, it just doesn't make sense.


收藏收藏15 收藏收藏15
19#
发表于 2021-11-11 19:34:16 发自 iPhone | 只看该作者
Mark
18#
发表于 2021-10-6 23:11:09 | 只看该作者
gothicer 发表于 2019-3-16 21:25
分析一下主楼附上的长贴

首先是提炼后的答主关键信息:

同意!               
17#
发表于 2021-10-6 23:10:07 | 只看该作者
感谢分享!               
16#
发表于 2019-6-2 23:41:41 | 只看该作者
gothicer 发表于 2019-3-16 21:25
分析一下主楼附上的长贴

首先是提炼后的答主关键信息:

同意!               
15#
发表于 2019-5-24 10:22:31 | 只看该作者
美国现在不是很好,考虑一下欧洲把
14#
发表于 2019-5-17 00:54:26 来自手机 | 只看该作者
发表于 2019-03-16 21:25:37
分析一下主楼附上的长贴

首先是提炼后的答主关键信息:
1)美国人,MBA毕业后计划回美国工作...

Mark一下
13#
发表于 2019-4-23 08:42:11 来自手机 | 只看该作者
Mark一下
12#
发表于 2019-4-15 17:19:16 | 只看该作者
gothicer 发表于 2019-3-16 21:25
分析一下主楼附上的长贴

首先是提炼后的答主关键信息:

楼主正解
11#
发表于 2019-4-14 14:18:15 | 只看该作者
Mark一下!               
您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 立即注册

NTU MBA
IESE MBA
近期活动

正在浏览此版块的会员 ()

手机版|ChaseDream|GMT+8, 2025-11-15 18:05
京公网安备11010202008513号 京ICP证101109号 京ICP备12012021号

ChaseDream 论坛

© 2003-2025 ChaseDream.com. All Rights Reserved.

返回顶部