金融与 IB ---- Demystified

本文适合对象:

guys who want to study in finance master program,including master in finance(MF),finance engineering(FE),mathematic finance(MathF),computational finance(CF) and MBA program with concentration in finance (MBAF)etc，下文统一以缩写字母称呼。（我不想写英文，但是公司里没有智能输入，用微软是在难受阿，sorry, sorry)

为什么要写：

1。CD上的人10个里面8个想读MF or MBAF的，但是8个里面3个自以为很了解Finance，其实错的一踏糊涂的，4个基本不懂，选择Finance就是完全的随大流，还有一个算soso. 当然这不是个人的错，完全是国内的fin edu太落后造成。虽然大家想读点东西的动机是好的，但是盲目决策的代价有时是很大的。  希望我能给申请fin的朋友提供一点参考，减少一些麻烦。

2 。老板不在，无事可干，与其上网和MM聊天，不如为CD出点力。

First,i want to tell you the difference bw those programs.

MF: focus on corp fin,investment mangement,stock analysis etc.

FE: focus on derivatives and fixed income, MathFand CF are its two main branches. It can be either theoretical foucsed(MathF) or practical modelling skills oriented(CF).

MathF: foucs on math modelling skills, the so called "wall street rocket sciencist" mainly from this branch or from physics and math PhDs.

CF: focus on programing skills to model derivative pricing models or interest rate curve etc.

MBAF: basically, the same as MF.

(I have to point out that some programs' structure mixed with these subjects/contents,and take a general title as master in finance.When you try to differenciate those programs,dont care too much of it's title,but its course structure)

Second，难度，要求的技能，职业方向及谁适合读。

MF: easy, no background requirment,anyone can take it.Sometimes they also teach everything from derivative to fixed income,but thats kinda of general education (启蒙教育，或者叫金融扫盲）but mostly the future Career is,IBD( I mean the investment division in IB),Big 4,corp fin,any general financial skills position. Someone(especially MBAF) with good background and great interest can also take general positions in derivative and fixed income,like sales.CFA is most similar with this branch.Thats also what most of the MBAF focus,except the one in MIT.(Someone will argue with me,"Hi,man,in my MF/MBAF program in Harvard/MIT/stanford,the derivative, fixed income courses are the best among the best,taught by the most famous professors,do u know that?!  .I want to be a derivative trader in the future!".  我只能说，兄弟大胆干吧，没有什么事情是不可能的，不读书都可能变成Soros，二块钱彩票还能变500万呢！

I think what most of the finance "Lovers" on CD think of  "finance" is supposed to be MF/MBAF. Its also most suitable for liberal arts background (文科和经济，"学经济的，你们是文理兼修，我知道，暂时委屈一下"）students to study,especially consider the math education level in china's economics,finance,business major. (以我的中国排名250位的母校为参考，top 20的牛校的情况我不敢妄言）

FE: hard.advanced math skill,Some programming skills.Think it as a master in applied math in finance program is actually better.But compared to MathF and CF,its less demanding on the requirements and relatively easier for liberal arts guys to take it down if you can really study hard and devoted，and of course,you must be very smart.(比如，可以自己一个人三天内基本搞明白本科工科level的拉普拉斯变化，"什么东东我学金融的从来没有听说过阿，废话，你管他是什么，叫你学就学吧，学完马上去看泛涵分析"）当然这些东东本质上都是可以搞明白的，考试还是可以应付的。但是  if u dont have a solid background in math skills,its very hard to go beyond of textbook and further into this area,you are limited into not-seriously-technical positions in derivative and fixed income dep in IB.If you are very technical,any advanced positions in IB open its door to you though mostly you have to compete with phd students.

MathF: harder than FE in terms of math.不是读数学,统计,物理,or any advanced technical degree in china的XDJM们，请慎重。有钱可以给希望工程，不要白给老美。"不是白给阿，毕竟我去了美国，也多少读了阿""sorry,我是说申请费 "MF出来IB research,derivative trader,risk management， 基本没有问题，可以进。

CF：very hard.high skills in programming.但是对数学的要求也不低，programming 上C++最好比较在行，最有有几年编程的experience,出来可以在IB帮读MathF的兄弟们做在草稿纸上的毫无用处的model做到computer, make it to be real applications which are heavily used to price the derivatives.Best paid job.and easiest to get job.even your english is BAD,no work permit,you can still enjoy the happiness to choose which company to go and negociate on the salary!

MBAF:见MF.

不过我要补充一句，所谓出来工作这个那个，都是以native english speaker with work permit 为假设的，对于90%中国学生来说，英语不好，那就不要多想IB了,"不是读CF的可以吗？""人家精通计算机语言，那不是英语啊？！" ）

写到这基本ok了，我也要下班了，最后稍微说一下几个popular的program.

Priceton(half MF half FE) ,CMU(CF),CU(FE),Chicago(MathF),stanford(MathF)NYU(MathF)的项目很难进去，我感觉国内读出来的人，没有工作经验( i mean experience in IB,technical position,not bank of china,etc)the first three is very hard to get in,if sb majored in math/physics in the top 10 U in china,can try the later three.

Haas(FE),top rated program.hard to enter.

Boston(MF+ a little FE) the most easy one to get in,but yeah, hard to get job.but if you english is good,can try.Englsih is most important for this program.

CUNY(MathF).UF(MathF)kinda easy to get in,and not expensive,can try.not very bad.possible to get a technical job in a second or third tire bank.

MIT(MBAF and FE) good.应该是美国里最好的了in terms of career future.

还有一些学校图兰啊，orengen啊，等等我不熟，不知。

英国

LSE master in FE(FE),master in AF(MF),"two program,different",good program,best in europe.hard to get in for FE,easy to get in for AF.if good in english and communication,can try.can get a  good job in IB even in UK.if not,but want to go to US to purse PHD,Good choice.Or else,"先考虑希望工程吧"

Oxford(FE),new program,no past information.

oxford(MathF) better than oxford FE.but hard to enter.better when out.

IC(FE+half CF).good.but not hard to get in.career prospect,see LSE

Cambridge(FE).good.hard to enter.

Once again,if your english is good,all above four schools are worth having a try,you can even get more chances to get a job in top IB than in US.However, coz they are all relatively easier to get in than US good schools, you must be more,慎重。

Other school in UK,not suggest,coz hard to get job.  

头回~~~坐沙发~~~

其实也不是只有读MF才能进IB, 读literature, chem, arts, etc都可以。记得GS的mentor说过"GS is open to every major. Just make sure you are competent and capable"

关于中国和未来金融开放，以及如何投机，我就用我的另外一个帖子来回答你的问题：

金融市场有一套规则，最基本的叫有效市场假说（EMH),简单的说因为市场是有效的，价格已经充分反映了市场和信息的变化，所以没有人可以从trading中得到超额利润。总的来说EMH这套游戏规则还是成立的，这套规则仍然起着重要的作用，但是事实表明市场总是有偏差的，Alpha（excess return，predictable return，whatever）总是存在的。什么样的规则总有空子可以钻，更何况金融市场本身迅速演变，外部政经时事亦风云变幻，一日规则跟不上内外之变化，arbitrage的机会自然产生。

Alpha的来源各种各样，tax arbitrage，ranking arb，term structure arb，等等等等，（这些东西就是为什么MathF，FE现在热门的原因，读MF，MBAF是没有办法做的）要能掌握和实际超作这些个投机策略也不是一般人能做到的。但是回看历史，过去20年最大的几次金融市场的投机机会都不是这些因素而是因为政治因素和一国经济政策而策源的。不谈大家熟知的亚洲金融危机，欧盟从成立到今日以及欧元的诞生，为过去几十年来创造了几次巨大的投机机会。Soros阻击英镑，LTCM豪赌意大利加入欧元区前夕被低估的bond，以及到今日欧盟东扩Trader们寄希望于新成员国们为达到新的财政赤字，货币政策而可能带来的种种机会都是非常好的例子。
那下一个Alpha的机会在哪里呢？从上面的经验来看，下20年里，巨变中的中国将给这个世界带来几次巨大的机会。老外们高喊”21世纪是中国的“这个不是说中国要超过美国了，成为世界霸主了，而是说“21世纪到中国去make money”。我接触过的trader和high profile的IBbanker，无不流露出有朝一日在中国狠捞一笔然后退休的“白日青天梦”。

作为中国人，我们这一代人面对着是一次绝好的机会，（make money 也不能让给鬼老啊）20年左右的黄金时期，过了2030年，中国也就平庸了。要成为下一个世界一流的投机大师，就好好学好规则，然后精通中国政事及经济发展之脉搏，通晓中外投资者之习性，或许成以有所作为。如果能挣得鬼老几百个亿，弄跨几个横行霸道的银行，像MS，GS，citi之流的，充实中国之外汇储备，那就是一流大师也。

××××××××××××

上面的话就是说MathF这种东西其实并不是万能的，有时靠直觉的东西虽然不科学，但是却管用。尤其考虑到中国的国情，数量化人才在中国可能比起在市场中靠感觉决策的人并没有什么优势，当年上海的认购证，有模型可以预测它的收益吗，没有。但是看准当时情势的人还是可以做出正确的决定的，5。19行情也是可以从高层决策面的角度去预测的，这些都是“普通群众”可以做的。就算是最可以用现代金融来定价的期货上，现在上海期货市场上几个品种根本就不是用西方的定价模型来定价的，老外根本不能理解这个价是怎么来的，只有中国人知道为什么。

佩服.............................

原来就知道中国的金融市场比较特殊，但是想到既然要跟世界接轨，应该需要非国内教育的人才充实那些连接国内外的金融接口机构。没想过楼住说的这么细。

拜读

Great input!! Thanks.

Went to GS info session weeks ago, my impression of their policy of accepting applicants from all majors is kinda of tageting at lower level positions, like analyst at entry levels...etc.. I do think there's no way for liberal arts graduates can be competent at modeling/ pricing positions, that's the big difference xxxyear actually pointed out...

Re,

To the point, and greatly helpful!

不过我要补充一句，所谓出来工作这个那个，都是以native english speaker with work permit 为假设的，对于90%中国学生来说，英语不好，那就不要多想IB了

这个，i totally agree，and definitely understand i'm just in that 90% 中国学生. 能让我还有一点点瑶无希望的希望的，是作为mf, mbaf，将来会中国啊，香港啊什么的，做做10%在美国ib干的活，是否有些许可能性呢？

谢谢xxxyear 啦！