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Tsinghua IMBA vs Peking IMBA vs CEIBS
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The original article url ： http://www.find-mba.com/board/5928 Tsinghua IMBA vs. Peking Univ. IMBA vs. CEIBS
| Author | Message | idsohn
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 3 | I've read some posts and found really good insights about MBA programs in China. I am thinking about applying to Tsinghua/Peking/CEIBS IMBA programs (all taught in English). I would like to hear some more insights from people with knowledge/experience/background, and would really appreciate any comments.
To give you some background for better assessment of the situation, here's the following.
MY INFORMATION
- U.S. educated
- Investment Banking at one of the bulge bracket firms(2.5 years)
- IT consulting (2.5 years)
- Korean nationality
- Basic level of Mandarin (learning at the moment)
SHORT-TERM CAREER GOAL
- Work in China and learn about the China market and its dynamics
- Work at a large multinational firm/Chinese private corporate for 5-8 years
- Prefer doing strategy/marketing related work (to prepare for my long-term goal)
- Haven't decided on which industry
- Network with people in China
LONG-TERM CAREER GOAL
- Start up a business in China
- Seek a political role down the road
MY QUESTIONS
1. What are the key differentiating points on the schools above? (I am more curious about differenciating points on Peking vs. Tsinghua)
2. Which firms are active in recruiting int'l students in China? (I understand the demand is high for English speaking Chinese students, but how about international students?)
3. Which school will best prepare for a good career start in China? (heard someone arguing CEIBS will provide better career options as to Peking/Tsinghua will be more helpful when starting up a company down the road)
4. From networking perspective, CEIBS seems to have very limited resources (no undergrad., small number of graduates, etc). Will the network quality/name value of Peking/Tsinghua offset the academic strength of CEIBS?
5. How would you assess the quality of student body? (not the EMBA or MBA taught in Chinese, but the IMBA)
6. Peking/Tsinghua have a great undergraduate student body. Is it easy to network with them? How is the IMBA perceived in the school by other students?
7. What is the actual level of salary after graduation? (FT says CEIBS is at $140K on ave. I have a feeling that as a graduate of these schools will be offered with a "local package" rather than a "global package" even from multinational firms...)
8. What are the weak points of these schools? (Admissions offices have only given the strengths...)
9. Is there any MBA ranking available for programs in China?
I know this is somewhat long list of questions, but if you could share your views, it will really help me a lot better assess the programs + make the right decision.
Truly appreciate your time put into this.
[Edited 31 Jan 2008 by idsohn] | | | vasilijs
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 36 | 2. Virtually all multinational corporations operating in China do recruit international students. Since you have some Mandarin, you are in a better position than most
4. Well, networking in China is extremely useful, networking means everything. But don't worry too much that CEIBS doesn't have undergraduate programme - the networking here (at HKUST) is a kind of separate, i.e. MBA and EMBA network in their own pool, undergrads network in their own. Undergrads will bring you only third hand network - important sometimes, but not that crucial as the MBA network
7. $140k is stated in PPP; to get the real dollars, divide by 4
9. Too many to take them into consideration. According to local Chinese rankings, all more or less good schools are N1 in a respective rating. For CEIBS, Tsinghua, Peking - they all three will say "We are N1 in China according to _____ ranking" in their presentations  | | | relativeambition
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 2 | 1. There are numerous differences between the two, with perhaps the biggest being culture (and therefore a question of fit for the student). It is not uncommon for people to compare Tsinghua to MIT and BeijingU to a place like Yale. The science and tech school vs. lib arts college.
with regards to the MBA programs, there seems to be a growing consensus in the business community that both BeijingU's Guanghua and Tsinghua SEM are rapidly approaching A league status globally. BeijingU's Bimba program (taught separately from Guanghua) on the other hand is not quite of the same caliber.
3. CEIBS is specialized in recruiting students who are well positioned for work in multinationals in Shanghai and then building them up for that end goal. Peking and Tsinghua are quite different in that they have a broader and perhaps more standard goal of placing students in domestic companies, multinationals and state owned enterprises as well as entrepreneurship.
I do not believe that any of the three schools is better, but rather each is best suited to different people and objectives. If entrepreneurship in the mainland is the end objective, I would fin it very hard to argue in favor of CEIBS in Shanghai. CEIBS is not good at this (there is no ecosystem for entrepreneurship, the silicone valley is in Beijing, there is no broad alumni network, etc).
As per BeijingU or Tsinghua, do you want social/human or science/tech?
4. CEIBS is not that strong academically and Tsinghua/Beida have far more heavyweight professors. CEIBS is very good at marketing however and may appear stronger. If you dig a little, you will see that none of the Chinese schools have the same quality as the top10 american schools. This being said, they are not far behind.
5. The CEIBS students are quite good and are good fits for multinationals operating in Shanghai.
The BeijingU and Tsinghua students come from a broader background and are also quite strong. The international students are also different in that many of them have a strong entrepreneurial drive.
7. CEIBS students average around 300,000 RMB/year (Chinese students) and 500,000 RMB (international students)
Tsinghua Students average around 250,000 RMB year (Ch) and 400,000 RMB (intl.).
Beida: marginally less than Tsinghua, but no proof easily accessible
The big difference is that CEIBS students are particularly chosen for multinationals, whereas the Tsinghua students are selected for a broader range (ie. including entrepreneurship) of positions. The Tsinghua students who go work for multinationals make the same amount as those from CEIBS.
9. In the past, BeijingU's Guanghua and Tsinghua SEM have not participated in international rankings, though this will likely change soon. Domestically, they generally tie for 1st or are 1st and 2nd. CEIBS and CKGSB are different, they are not Chinese universities and therefore come out on top in different rankings. It is really hard to compare these private schools with universities (like Insead/Ceibs vs. Stanford/Tsinghua) however. [Edited 08 Feb 2008 by relativeambition] | | | seanbb
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 1 | The two three MBA program in China is
1. CEIBS
2. CKGSB
3. BIMBA
Tsinghua, Peking MBA program is similar as Oxford and Cambridge MBA program, quite famouse university but not so good on MBA program
CEIBS is like Insead while CKGSB as IMD | | | idsohn
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 3 | 2. Virtually all multinational corporations operating in China do recruit international students. Since you have some Mandarin, you are in a better position than most
4. Well, networking in China is extremely useful, networking means everything. But don't worry too much that CEIBS doesn't have undergraduate programme - the networking here (at HKUST) is a kind of separate, i.e. MBA and EMBA network in their own pool, undergrads network in their own. Undergrads will bring you only third hand network - important sometimes, but not that crucial as the MBA network
7. $140k is stated in PPP; to get the real dollars, divide by 4
9. Too many to take them into consideration. According to local Chinese rankings, all more or less good schools are N1 in a respective rating. For CEIBS, Tsinghua, Peking - they all three will say "We are N1 in China according to _____ ranking" in their presentations
Vasilijs, thank you very much for your input. (Sorry for the late reply. I was on the road for the Chinese New Year)
2. Comforting to hear that there is a demand. I just wanted to make sure I am not basing my MBA plan on something nonexistent.
4. I guess you are right it won't be easy to mingle with undergrad/EMBA community. If the pool of professors are added, wouldn't you say Peking/Tsinghua have better networking? I am vaguly assuming the Peking/Tsinghua professors are probably a part of the elite class in China with quite strong network nationwide. CEIBS has professors from abroad, but this seems like a big downside to me as I want to network with Chinese nationals, not with visiting/adjunct professors who will leave China in a few years...
7. Didn't know it was in PPP. Thanks for the info.
| | | idsohn
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 3 | 1. There are numerous differences between the two, with perhaps the biggest being culture (and therefore a question of fit for the student). It is not uncommon for people to compare Tsinghua to MIT and BeijingU to a place like Yale. The science and tech school vs. lib arts college.
with regards to the MBA programs, there seems to be a growing consensus in the business community that both BeijingU's Guanghua and Tsinghua SEM are rapidly approaching A league status globally. BeijingU's Bimba program (taught separately from Guanghua) on the other hand is not quite of the same caliber.
3. CEIBS is specialized in recruiting students who are well positioned for work in multinationals in Shanghai and then building them up for that end goal. Peking and Tsinghua are quite different in that they have a broader and perhaps more standard goal of placing students in domestic companies, multinationals and state owned enterprises as well as entrepreneurship.
I do not believe that any of the three schools is better, but rather each is best suited to different people and objectives. If entrepreneurship in the mainland is the end objective, I would fin it very hard to argue in favor of CEIBS in Shanghai. CEIBS is not good at this (there is no ecosystem for entrepreneurship, the silicone valley is in Beijing, there is no broad alumni network, etc).
As per BeijingU or Tsinghua, do you want social/human or science/tech?
4. CEIBS is not that strong academically and Tsinghua/Beida have far more heavyweight professors. CEIBS is very good at marketing however and may appear stronger. If you dig a little, you will see that none of the Chinese schools have the same quality as the top10 american schools. This being said, they are not far behind.
5. The CEIBS students are quite good and are good fits for multinationals operating in Shanghai.
The BeijingU and Tsinghua students come from a broader background and are also quite strong. The international students are also different in that many of them have a strong entrepreneurial drive.
7. CEIBS students average around 300,000 RMB/year (Chinese students) and 500,000 RMB (international students)
Tsinghua Students average around 250,000 RMB year (Ch) and 400,000 RMB (intl.).
Beida: marginally less than Tsinghua, but no proof easily accessible
The big difference is that CEIBS students are particularly chosen for multinationals, whereas the Tsinghua students are selected for a broader range (ie. including entrepreneurship) of positions. The Tsinghua students who go work for multinationals make the same amount as those from CEIBS.
9. In the past, BeijingU's Guanghua and Tsinghua SEM have not participated in international rankings, though this will likely change soon. Domestically, they generally tie for 1st or are 1st and 2nd. CEIBS and CKGSB are different, they are not Chinese universities and therefore come out on top in different rankings. It is really hard to compare these private schools with universities (like Insead/Ceibs vs. Stanford/Tsinghua) however.
Relativeambition, thank you for your thorough reply and valuable insight to this.
1. I agree with your opinion on BIMBA. I didn't receive strong impression on this school. As for Tsinghua vs. Peking comparison, since Tsinghua has an MIT joint program, I am suspecting the quality of Tsinghua's MBA classes could be better than that of Peking U. But in your opinion, the main difference lies in the culture and atmosphere, right? Not much different academically?
3. Great info! I am thinking more on the social/human side over the science/tech, but thesedays in China, I found in the news many Tsinghua graduates are working for the government that the two school can't be exactly categorized into these two segments, wouldn't you agree?
9. Do you by any chance have any insight on Beida Guanghua School of Economics vs. Tsinghua SEM for their undergraduate studies? In general, which one has better reputation?
| | | whitefox
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1 | so i just joined this forum to comment,
I actually got accepted in both programs, but know of people who got accepted into one versus another.
After talking to a lot of people, many comments here are pretty much repeated.
BIMBA is not the same caliber.
Tsinghua is more engineering (althrough chinese leadership currently comes from here, many people are saying Beida will have more political power in the incoming years)
Beida is more social based.
based on reputation, beida is more known internationally on a general person perspective. But if the person you are talking to is a graduate from MIT, they know about Tsinghua. (friends there knew exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned Tsinghua) not sure about other schools though. And if you are only talking about in China, Tsinghua is known to be overall better. But Beida is still pretty damn good (in their eyes)
Beida seems to have WAY more international programs, where Tsinghua seems to have a smaller yet elite group (potentially HBS, Stanford,MIT) [Edited 22 May 2008 by whitefox] | | | jason
Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 1 | Here's my view. Beida Guanghua and Tsinghua are burdened by bureaucracy under the control of China's Ministry of Education, underfunded, and struggle to get beyond domestic pay-scales for professors - they have a hard time attracting the best professors back from abroad, so it's China-style education, which although is modernizing fast, still isn't getting there. Guanghua is likely the better bet of these two.
CEIBS, which is also government owned, has done the best job so far, but grew too big too fast and is burdened as a "joint-venture" where it's not clear whether the Europeans or Chinese are in control of the school, so watch out for a coming identity crisis there.
Cheung Kong GSB is still young, but has the best positioning. It's independent, Chinese-owned and run, and has backing from the Li Ka-shing Foundation which keeps it funded (without bringing in government) and helps to bring in the best professors. The MBA Program is about 1/3 the size of CEIBS, but the overall quality of students might be edging a bit higher because they keep it small. | | | jtrak
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 2 | Good points on the CEIBS vs. Beida/Tsinghua! Why do you believe Guanghua is the better than Tsinghua?
My thoughts on the professor comments - Is the goal of a Chinese School is to attract world recognized professors that speak no Chinese? Most professors that come to China to do research find that Chinese is a necessity. Otherwise, the inability to convieniently do interviews and read Chinese can be a major hinderance. This raises the question of how sustainable it is to bring a foreign teacher to a Chinese MBA school. As an alumni, if you call a professor for help in 5 years, what is the likelyhood the foreign professor will still be in China?
The above assumes the main reason you come to China is for the professors. Other factors:
1) Classmates, alumni and those in your community for the two years you are there are also a big element. Tsinghua and BEIDA are still bigname schools for students around the entirety of China, meaning you can meet those not only from Beijing but from future growth markets in Central/Western/Northeast China. When discussing alumni, although Tsinghua/BEIDA have a prominent list of alumni, it is important to realize that to take full advantage of this resource (meaning contacting alumns or EMBAs you have never met) fluency in Chinese, both reading and spoken, is important.
2) Language Learning - If you graduate from an MBA in China and do not speak Chinese, your job functions will be limited. The best option may be to start your own business.
3) Location is also a major issue. Most of the Tsinghua graduates this year are staying in Beijing, with a few going to Shanghai and other places in China/Asia. Those graduates that are starting their own business have found Beijing to be a good place to hire employees (an easy way to either hire undergraduates/graduates from Tsinghua/Beida), as well as find access to Venture Capital and meet strategic partners. Traditionally, CEIBS has placed most of their graduates in Shanghai. It will be interesting where their foreign student graduates end up this year. | | |
[此贴子已经被作者于2008-8-7 10:51:50编辑过] |
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发表于 2008-8-7 10:36:00
