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can和potentially到底是否redundant?

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楼主
发表于 2004-8-21 17:14:00 | 只看该作者

can和potentially到底是否redundant?

找到两个例子,一个可以用,一个不可以用


先是OG




159. While depressed property values can hurt some large investors, they are potentially devastating for home-owners, whose equity—in many cases representing a life’s savings—can plunge or even disappear.


(A) they are potentially devastating for homeowners, whose


(B) they can potentially devastate homeowners in that their


(C) for homeowners they are potentially devastating, because their


(D) for homeowners, it is potentially devastating in that their(A)


(E) it can potentially devastate homeowners, whose


Choice A is the best. Its wording is unambiguous and economical. The plural pronoun they agrees with its antecedent, property values. The pronoun whose clearly refers to homeowners and efficiently connects them with the idea of lost equity. In B, C, and D, substituting in that their or because their for whose is wordy and confusing since the antecedent of their might be they, not homeowners. Furthermore, can potentially is redundant in B and E. Both D and E use the singular pronoun it, which does not agree with its logical antecedent, property values.



再来大全的



212. Following the destruction of the space shuttle Challenger, investigators concluded that many key people employed by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and its contractors work an excessive amount of overtime that has the potential of causing errors in judgment.


(A) overtime that has the potential of causing


(B) overtime that has the potential to cause


(C) overtime that potentially can cause


(D) overtime, a practice that has the potential for causing(E)


(E) overtime, a practice that can, potentially, cause



怎么这里又可以用了?


[此贴子已经被作者于2004-8-21 17:14:58编辑过]
推荐
发表于 2004-8-21 20:16:00 | 只看该作者

在OG那题中,potentially和can同时指向devastate,所以redundant,你只要用一个就可以了,要么can devastate,要么potentially devastate。


在大全那题中,potentially修饰can,can指向cause。意思是很有可能(potentially)可以(can)造成(cause)。。。


所以说永远不要去死记硬背考点,做语法题要从理解句意出发,要做到手中无剑,剑在心中,无招胜有招。:):)


[此贴子已经被作者于2004-8-21 20:26:47编辑过]
板凳
发表于 2004-8-21 21:16:00 | 只看该作者

可以参考: http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?BoardID=23&replyID=564638&id=14418&skin=0

所以说永远不要去死记硬背考点,做语法题要从理解句意出发,要做到手中无剑,剑在心中,无招胜有招。:):)

携隐mm高见!最后达到人剑合一,就是native speaker的境界!

地板
发表于 2012-3-11 01:09:23 | 只看该作者
在OG那题中,potentially和can同时指向devastate,所以redundant,你只要用一个就可以了,要么can devastate,要么potentially devastate。

在大全那题中,potentially修饰can,can指向cause。意思是很有可能(potentially)可以(can)造成(cause)。。。

所以说永远不要去死记硬背考点,做语法题要从理解句意出发,要做到手中无剑,剑在心中,无招胜有招。:):)

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-8-21 20:26:47编辑过]

-- by 会员 携隐 (2004/8/21 20:16:00)


看携隐姐姐的这个解释懂了哈~不过做题的时候怎么判判断啊?那个逗号是标志???
5#
发表于 2012-3-11 04:26:36 | 只看该作者
那么,解释一下potentially两边为什么要有“逗号”:
逗号的存在使得"potentially"可以修饰整个that引导的从句,而不是仅仅修饰can或者cause(“potentially修饰can”的说法并不准确,no offense...momo)。翻译一下就是:有可能这个practice可以造成误差。。。(类比一下however,有时候也是放在potentially这个位置)。
=====================================
而对于第一题,potentially和can都是修饰cause的。(potentially不能修饰can,因为副词无法修饰情态动词,除了一些固定表达,而且修饰主动词的副词一般放在情态动词和助动词后面,主动词前面)。
=====================================
实战不建议思考这个问题,太耗时间了。。因为GMAT还木有变态到只有这么一个错误的地步~~~~!
=====================================
真的要思考,那么就给一个规律:两个近义词,如果修饰同一个词,那么就是重复累赘。如果不是,那么就不必考虑是不是重复累赘了,因为即便有重复累赘错误,也是一个非常非常小的错误(程度比修饰“同一个词”造成的重复累赘要轻得多),必然存在其他更大的错误。
6#
发表于 2012-3-11 10:27:14 | 只看该作者
那么,解释一下potentially两边为什么要有“逗号”:
逗号的存在使得"potentially"可以修饰整个that引导的从句,而不是仅仅修饰can或者cause(“potentially修饰can”的说法并不准确,no offense...momo)。翻译一下就是:有可能这个practice可以造成误差。。。(类比一下however,有时候也是放在potentially这个位置)。
=====================================
而对于第一题,potentially和can都是修饰cause的。(potentially不能修饰can,因为副词无法修饰情态动词,除了一些固定表达,而且修饰主动词的副词一般放在情态动词和助动词后面,主动词前面)。
=====================================
实战不建议思考这个问题,太耗时间了。。因为GMAT还木有变态到只有这么一个错误的地步~~~~!
=====================================
真的要思考,那么就给一个规律:两个近义词,如果修饰同一个词,那么就是重复累赘。如果不是,那么就不必考虑是不是重复累赘了,因为即便有重复累赘错误,也是一个非常非常小的错误(程度比修饰“同一个词”造成的重复累赘要轻得多),必然存在其他更大的错误。
-- by 会员 aeoluseros (2012/3/11 4:26:36)


哇哇哇~~~~~明白啦~~~~~谢谢aeo斑斑~~~~饭饭明白啦~~~哈哈哈~~~记到小本本中~~!
7#
发表于 2012-3-11 11:11:43 | 只看该作者
我有异议,见过scientific papers里面很多"can potentially"的表达,"A can potentially lead to B"
事实上"potentially"这词作为qualification,学术圈很喜欢,因为显得很严密。
韦氏词典对potentially的解释
1 : existing in possibility  : capable of development into actuality  *potential benefits*
2 : expressing possibility;  specifically   : of, relating to, or constituting a verb phrase expressing possibility, liberty, or power by the use of an auxiliary with the infinitive of the verb (as in *it may rain*)

而"can"本身,并不强调"possibility".  
I can swim. = I am able to swim.
如果是"I can potentially swim. "   就是说,我并不知道我是否会游泳。但是,如果你把我丢下水,我大概就会游了,而不会被淹死。

lz给的第一道题,我不同意OG说的potentially有问题,我觉得B的关键问题是"in that their",意思不连贯,逻辑不顺畅。而且"in that"在这里也不好。
对比A,"comma+whose", whose精确指代homeowneres,句子逻辑非常清晰明确。

我也不同意au斑斑说的potentially修饰对象的问题,我觉得potentially两边的逗号仅仅表示插入成分,potentially仍然修饰"can cause".

好吧,似乎我反驳了一大片......大家批判性收听,欢迎探讨。

找到两个例子,一个可以用,一个不可以用

先是OG



159. While depressed property values can hurt some large investors, they are potentially devastating for home-owners, whose equity—in many cases representing a life’s savings—can plunge or even disappear.

(A) they are potentially devastating for homeowners, whose

(B) they can potentially devastate homeowners in that their

(C) for homeowners they are potentially devastating, because their

(D) for homeowners, it is potentially devastating in that their(A)

(E) it can potentially devastate homeowners, whose

Choice A is the best. Its wording is unambiguous and economical. The plural pronoun they agrees with its antecedent, property values. The pronoun whose clearly refers to homeowners and efficiently connects them with the idea of lost equity. In B, C, and D, substituting in that their or because their for whose is wordy and confusing since the antecedent of their might be they, not homeowners. Furthermore, can potentially is redundant in B and E. Both D and E use the singular pronoun it, which does not agree with its logical antecedent, property values.


再来大全的


212. Following the destruction of the space shuttle Challenger, investigators concluded that many key people employed by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and its contractors work an excessive amount of overtime that has the potential of causing errors in judgment.

(A) overtime that has the potential of causing

(B) overtime that has the potential to cause

(C) overtime that potentially can cause

(D) overtime, a practice that has the potential for causing(E)

(E) overtime, a practice that can, potentially, cause


怎么这里又可以用了?

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-8-21 17:14:58编辑过]



-- by 会员 numero (2004/8/21 17:14:00)



8#
发表于 2012-3-11 11:52:38 | 只看该作者
@babybearmm, 好思路,值得探讨~~

异议大概有三点:
1. can可以表示“可能性”,而且是一种长期存在的可能性,相对比could则表示短期、一次性或者过去某个事件的可能性。
Longman 4:【POSSIBILITY】used to say that something is possible

2. “potentially两边的逗号仅仅表示插入成分,potentially仍然修饰"can cause"”。
"插入成分"并不能成为“potentially修饰can cause"的理由,而且我也同意potentially是插入成分,只是这样的插入成分往往是修饰整个句子(分句)的。

3. can potentially这个结构其实确实常见,但是OG的说法确实有比较充分的理由(redundant),“两个词修饰对象逻辑上一致,而且意思相同,只用其中一个丝毫不改变原句含义”(判断累赘的准则,或者说是对redundant的诠释)...

ps: 我对OG的说法也有些疑虑,不过和babybearmm想法不太一样。用法上讲,potentially这个副词只能修饰其他副词或形容词结构或整个句子,而且修饰副词和形容词结构时potentially必须放在前面,所以第一题A选项里面potentially不可能直接修饰到swim. 既然不可能直接修饰到swim,那么又谈何redundant呢?
不过在新的官方题目出现并澄清这一用法以前,我想还是接受OG的解释为好...即can potentially最好不要一起用,即便一个意思为“可以”,另一个意思为“可能”(两者都有这两个意思),因为两个意思在大多语境下差别太小.
9#
发表于 2012-3-11 14:25:55 | 只看该作者
哇~~把斑斑呼唤出来了~

嗯,确实如你说的can也有possibility的意思,我刚才忽略了这个啦.....
我现在想,是不是具体到句子语境里,case-by-case:
比如我举的"I can swim"和"I can potentially swim"明显意思不同(前者确定,后者不确定),这里potentially不多余。
然后那个例子里 "can devastate"和"can potentially devastate" 都是表示一种possibility,所以potentially多余。假如是100%确定,那么句子肯定就不要"can"了,直接说"devastate"就完事了。
这么理解可以么?

@babybearmm, 好思路,值得探讨~~

异议大概有三点:
1. can可以表示“可能性”,而且是一种长期存在的可能性,相对比could则表示短期、一次性或者过去某个事件的可能性。
Longman 4:【POSSIBILITY】used to say that something is possible

2. “potentially两边的逗号仅仅表示插入成分,potentially仍然修饰"can cause"”。
"插入成分"并不能成为“potentially修饰can cause"的理由,而且我也同意potentially是插入成分,只是这样的插入成分往往是修饰整个句子(分句)的。

3. can potentially这个结构其实确实常见,但是OG的说法确实有比较充分的理由(redundant),“两个词修饰对象逻辑上一致,而且意思相同,只用其中一个丝毫不改变原句含义”(判断累赘的准则,或者说是对redundant的诠释)...

ps: 我对OG的说法也有些疑虑,不过和babybearmm想法不太一样。用法上讲,potentially这个副词只能修饰其他副词或形容词结构或整个句子,而且修饰副词和形容词结构时potentially必须放在前面,所以第一题A选项里面potentially不可能直接修饰到swim. 既然不可能直接修饰到swim,那么又谈何redundant呢?
不过在新的官方题目出现并澄清这一用法以前,我想还是接受OG的解释为好...即can potentially最好不要一起用,即便一个意思为“可以”,另一个意思为“可能”(两者都有这两个意思),因为两个意思在大多语境下差别太小.
-- by 会员 aeoluseros (2012/3/11 11:52:38)

10#
发表于 2012-3-12 10:19:13 | 只看该作者
@babybearmm, 好思路,值得探讨~~

异议大概有三点:
1. can可以表示“可能性”,而且是一种长期存在的可能性,相对比could则表示短期、一次性或者过去某个事件的可能性
Longman 4:【POSSIBILITY】used to say that something is possible

2. “potentially两边的逗号仅仅表示插入成分,potentially仍然修饰"can cause"”。
"插入成分"并不能成为“potentially修饰can cause"的理由,而且我也同意potentially是插入成分,只是这样的插入成分往往是修饰整个句子(分句)的

3. can potentially这个结构其实确实常见,但是OG的说法确实有比较充分的理由(redundant),“两个词修饰对象逻辑上一致,而且意思相同,只用其中一个丝毫不改变原句含义”(判断累赘的准则,或者说是对redundant的诠释)...

ps: 我对OG的说法也有些疑虑,不过和babybearmm想法不太一样。用法上讲,potentially这个副词只能修饰其他副词或形容词结构或整个句子,而且修饰副词和形容词结构时potentially必须放在前面,所以第一题A选项里面potentially不可能直接修饰到swim. 既然不可能直接修饰到swim,那么又谈何redundant呢?
不过在新的官方题目出现并澄清这一用法以前,我想还是接受OG的解释为好...即can potentially最好不要一起用,即便一个意思为“可以”,另一个意思为“可能”(两者都有这两个意思),因为两个意思在大多语境下差别太小.
-- by 会员 aeoluseros (2012/3/11 11:52:38)


(*^__^*) 嘻嘻……~~~又学到咯~~嘻嘻~~~谢谢斑斑下凡呦~~~~~~~~~~赶紧总结到小本本里面呦~~~~

to baby姐姐~~~:哈哈~~~姐姐思考好有深度滴说~~饭饭学习~~~
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