Prep 2008-2-155题独立主格问题

alzn2765

155.With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

A. Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with

B. Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its

C. Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has

D. Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its     

E. Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have


答案：B
考点：
平行结构（parallelism） 题目释义（grammatical construction）

1. and前后平行。

2. consider A B：把A认为是B，中间不加as和to be，其中B为名词或形容词。

3. 独立主格（见补充说明）。
选项分析：
A. and前后不对称，前面是完整句子，后面是一个介词短语。

B. correct；its 60 square miles of water thought to be…做been considered的伴随状语做补充说明逻辑最合理。

C. consider … as累赘；把has 60 square miles和consider并列，逻辑上不是最合适的。

D. and前后都是sentence fragment，而不是完整句子；consider…as累赘。

E. consider to be累赘；and前后都不是完整句子，错误。


前半句With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit，是一个独立主格结构吧？主句主谓宾不用说。后半句A选项是个独立主格，正确答案B选线也是个独立主格，我们就认为整句是：独立主格+主句+独立主格 这么一个结构，应该没问题。

第一个问题：如果A选项中的and不是为了跟主句连接，而是为了跟第一个独立主格连接呢？也就是：独立主格1 and 独立主格2,主句。 变成独立主格1，主句，and独立主格2的结构。这样理解有问题吗？这个后半句明显是独立主格结构，哪会有人把他当成跟主句并列的动宾结构？即使用and也不会引起歧义吧？

第二个问题：；两个独立主格（甚至更多）可以并列吗？可以用and, or等连接吗？

谢谢！

alzn2765

不公平啊！我答了好几道题，到我提问时，木有人回答了。CD有没有爱啊。。。

alzn2765

求解答！

alzn2765

CD没有爱啊！我泪流满面。。。

alzn2765

还是泪流满面的自己解答：
经过与老同学讨论，得出结论：and可以连接两个独立主格，但是中间不可以插入主句。
也就是说：独立主格1 and 独立主格2， 主句。这是可以的。
但是：独立主格1 ，主句，and 独立主格2。这是不可以的。

安静的寂寞

alzn2765 发表于 2014-5-14 11:20
还是泪流满面的自己解答：
经过与老同学讨论，得出结论：and可以连接两个独立主格，但是中间不可以插入主句 ...

Suggest: Do not think too much when you solve SC problem.
Simple logic is the best. I mean, When you try to solve this question,
the right logic is
A XXXX, and with XXXX
you should ask yourself "and with XXX parallel to what", then you find that no elements can parallel to" , and withXXXX"
What's more, a parallel structure with “and” wouldn't make sense here, because these two descriptions are not separate and independent. (in the structure “x and y”, the “x” and “y” should be two separate, relatively independent things.)
when you first read the sentence, you should notice that the second description -- the description about a bunch of stuff frozen from top to bottom -- is elaborating on, or illustrating, the first description (too cold to support life). therefore, for the sentence to make sense, the second part should be written as a modifier of the first part.

Have you ever seen " absolute phrase and absolute phrase sentence" in Gmat SC correct sentence? I think GMAT will not test this point.
Here, B has the perfect absolute phrase attached to the preceding sentence.
Better not tangle with further complicated but pointless question.

alzn2765

安静的寂寞 发表于 2014-5-14 12:17
Suggest: Do not think too much when you solve SC problem.
Simple logic is the best. I mean, When yo ...

谢谢解答！你早点看到这个问题的话，我也不用把别人逼的要死要活的。
看了您的解释，但感觉你好像说了什么，又好像什么也没说。此话绝无冒犯之意。
首先，我觉得“With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit”和正确答案的“its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom”都可以补充说明“Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life”，因为他们都是表达Europa很冷的：一个说表面温度-230华氏度-一个字：冷！一个说60平方公里的水从表面到底部都是冻成一坨的-一个字：还是冷！两者都可以补充说明Europa “far too cold to support life”。如果你说只有“its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom”是说明“far too cold to support life”的话，那“With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit”是干什么用的呢?

我当初的疑问是：如果A选项中的and不是为了跟主句连接，而是为了跟第一个独立主格连接呢？也就是：独立主格1 and 独立主格2,主句。 变成独立主格1，主句，and独立主格2的结构。这样理解有问题吗？这个后半句明显是独立主格结构，哪会有人把他当成跟主句并列的动宾结构？即使用and也不会引起歧义吧？

也就是说我问的就是如果用“, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.
”能不能跨过主句与前面的“With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit,”去并列。也就是：独立主格1 ，主句，and 独立主格2的结构。毕竟“With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit,”和“with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom”都是说明“Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life”的。
后来，同学给出的答案是：and可以连接两个独立主格，但是中间不可以插入主句。也就是说：独立主格1 and 独立主格2， 主句。这是可以的。但是：独立主格1 ，主句，and 独立主格2。这是不可以的。
这就是为什么A选项不可以的原因。但并不是说否定了“with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.”是独立主格，起到补充说明的作用。A选项错在and，如果不用and，也是正确的。
换句话说，如果这句话的顺序变成：With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life. 我认为是正确的。

我从一开始就认为不管用“ with 60...” 还是 “its 60...” 都是补充说明冷的，这一点我从来没有疑问过。

“with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom”这句话你不认为是独立主格，这个我就不认同了。这明显是一个标准的独立主格啊！with+宾语+宾补,其中 60 square miles of water是宾语， thought to be frozen from top to bottom是宾补。如果想判断一下宾语和宾补对不对，可以用宾语 is 宾补，看看逻辑意思通顺不：60 square miles of water is thought to be frozen from top to bottom。完全ok！如果说这个是介词短语的话，那独立主格就不存在了，因为所有的独立主格都是“介词短语”了。
即使正确答案“its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom”也是独立主格结构，名词是its 60 square miles of water，-ed是thought to be frozen from top to bottom。

综上所述，您前半部分说了一个“真理”，但无助于解答本题。中间部分说的也正确，但我本来也是这么理解的，而且正是基于此理解我才问了最开始的问题。最后部分说的我不认同。所以，我才说，您“你好像说了什么，又好像什么也没说”。

安静的寂寞

alzn2765 发表于 2014-5-14 15:06
谢谢解答！你早点看到这个问题的话，我也不用把别人逼的要死要活的。
看了您的解释，但感觉你好像说了什 ...

Wow, such a long response. LOL
I mean, U should focus on the meaning point.

I try to tell you how to eliminate the A choice.
"and with ..." isn't parallel to anything.
When you take the exam, you do not have enough time to tangle with what you ask.Sometimes, we need to detect the best choice in less than one minute.

Indeed, I appreciate your attitude.

About your opinion:
With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.

Have you ever seen " absolute phrase and absolute phrase sentence" in Gmat SC correct sentence? I think GMAT will not test this point.

What's more,
"With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life. " I think this sentence is wordy. Definitely, not the best choice.

Just as i said before,B has the perfect absolute phrase attached to the preceding sentence.

alzn2765

安静的寂寞 发表于 2014-5-14 15:30
Wow, such a long response. LOL
I mean, U should focus on the meaning point.

完了，要么是我英文太烂，看不懂你的point，要么是我长时间不用中文，导致中文写作水平严重滑坡，让您没看懂。
I try to tell you how to eliminate the A choice.
"and with ..." isn't parallel to anything.
我当初想问的就是：如果"and with ..." 是和"With surface "并列的呢？你如果像我同学一样说：and可以连接两个独立主格，但是中间不可以插入主句。也算是回答我的问题了。但您说 "and with ..." isn't parallel to anything. 这就等于没说，因为prep07的答案就是“1. and前后平行。”你说是不是您说了等于没说？

我问这个问题很明显不是为了做这个题，而是想搞清楚这个知识点。这样，以后见到类似的题就不会犯错误了。所以我现在花多一点儿时间搞清楚，才可以在考场上“秒选”啊！

我没见过GMAT出连续两个独立主格并列的，但是从语法角度and的确是可以连接两个独立主格的，and对前后的要求是并列，独立主格1 and 独立主格2，完全满足“并列”的要求。但既然这道题出现了独立主格1，主句，独立主格2。我觉得某一天出现 独立主格1 and 独立主格2,主句。也是不奇怪的。GMAT的考试内容有限，不可能每句话都出现过，但是符合语法规则的，即使没出现也不能说是错的。

如果您觉得“With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life.”是wordy的，那么正确答案“With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life,  its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.”也是wordy的。因为这两句话是同一个意思，每个成分在句子中的作用也是相同的。

最后，您承认了its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom是独立主格，这是正确的。

DUKB24

我也没太看懂卤煮你的意思。
是说
withXXXX，主句，and with这样的一个结构么？
这个时候如果把主句理解成插入语我觉得不符合语法规则。

假设主句真能被理解成插入语，那理应去掉主句，还剩下一个完整的主句，但是貌似找不到这样的句子在这题里。given that 插入语的增减不会影响句子的结构和意思