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[校友答疑] UW CFRM 个人深刻经历和事实

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发表于 2014-3-2 15:16:15 | 只看该作者 回帖奖励 |倒序浏览 |阅读模式
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自曝背景。华大本科econ major, GPA3.8/4.0 GMAT 720 + 5.5 writing
上这个program是申请MIT没进,迫不得已留校。推荐信econ graduate program director写的。

重点说几个问题:(这次修改去掉一部分个人观点,陈述事实。如果有同学要反驳,不如拿出实例。比起说我观点偏激,偏颇,倒不如实实在在来来辩论,而非为了自己的前途而否定我所说的所有内容。我句句属实,经得起挖掘)

1.Doug Martin,系主任,常年不在西雅图。另外一位相对牛的professor, Eric Zivot,不管事。 Doug Martin曾经自己found S PLus语言开发的公司(业界有名气)Email不爱回。


2.R语言应用范围有限。的确,R有各种package可以方便使用,但是行业里用R的据我所知少。毕竟R是一个统计软件,行业里使用较多的还是VBA,C++, Matlab。 我个人对工作了解的也不是很多,但我的经历告诉我,如果不精通VBA 和 Matlab,在同等条件下,会使用R不会带来任何优势。

3.R 语言十分不稳定,经常会出现一些莫名的bug,甚至是同样的code,用一样的set.seed(2),run出来的结果差很多,这个时常令人崩溃。有人说没有见过,但是我的确遇到过不少次。而且,有时候R的debug很不好。若果你用了一个data.frame的class,但是那个公式需要input 一个 xts的,R很多时候不会准确告诉你这个问题,有时候debug很久找不出来。我个人编程能力较差,有可能是我自己蠢。

找工作:
4.找工作才是核心。我进去之前,CFRM的宣传是program里面有被morgan stanley, Goldman Sachs那些录取的,也有black rock, russell investment,100%录取率。事实上,我那届,也就是去年暑假,CFRM依然宣称100%录取率,但我很自豪的说我就是没有在他们的任何帮助下找到实习,更没有告诉program我有实习,但他们依然宣称100%。我确实有朋友,不止一个,暑假没有任何实习。最可笑的是program里面到邻近半个月暑假的时候,还有5-7人没有实习,最后出现5个人争抢一个Seattle City light, UW endowment的职位。如果说我们去念这个一个program,价格贵等会说,就为了去电信局,某某大学投资公司工作,为什么要出来念这个研究生?(这个是事实,是我亲身经历的,也了解。这一点上,无需讨论与否认)

5.我看大家在论坛里说quantnet里对这个program评价高,系里面有引导学生去做些事。这个是有事实的,毕业的敢不敢对着良心否认?评级机构需要公允,金融系统里需要诚信,这样下去,quantnet就失去了公信力。

大家知道,世界上有排名把UW排在16位,但是希望大家冷静思考,为什么相对权威的US NEws ranking,UW 从2008的42已经下滑到52?我判断这个趋势还会继续。原因是学校课程设置和教授水准,这个问题在经济金融领域尤为突出。我4年本科的经历,UW每年涨10%学费,学校声称没钱,却大力翻新扩建足球场,棒球场,学校装修图书馆(不增加面积,就是装得漂亮),每年更换所有MAc电脑,请问10年以后 UW掉到62名,这个对以后学历的影响是很大的。

6.没有什么可以帮上忙的allumni。我们是中国人,我们应该问问有多少中国学生最终靠系里的推荐和关系得到了令人满意的offer,甚至是工作与H1B?这个问题很现实的,没有refer就已经很难,况且位于seattle的location决定了东岸的各大投行与之毫无机会。CFRM宣称目的是去fund,fund无非要两种人:1.你有人脉,能给公司带来客户,资金和项目。 2.你有很强的数理功底,能做research,能研发quantitative strategy. 大家可以去多了解一下真正的quant的数理背景,master是无法相比的。行业里很多fund都是10-20人,人少而精,quant里面science PHD是个硬性指标,fund是buy side,你没经验没实力没人脉,还是中国人,为什么要你?有人反驳我说,我把目标设置成那么高的,的确,我承认我的目标高了。但是其他的又如何呢? 不如给大家贴出来2012届实习的地方,原意做research的同学自己去查吧。


当然了,我绝对不否认career Service很认真,Bill也在努力,问题是无论多努力,别人招intern还是看能力和名声。CFRM没有强大的业界名声,如果在各个方面能力也不是那么强,地域优势也不存在,那么确实不好找工作。

最后我问一句,出来发帖子反驳的各位,不如说说自己拿到了H1B没有?很多intern不给H1B,这个问题没有人正面回答过吧。

7.顺便给大家普及一下顶级投行的招聘模式。我废了九牛二虎之力也没进去香港顶级投行,甚至连面试的机会都没有。这几年市场不好,各个投行招的人本来就少,你认识junior, senior的人根本没用。UW这个名头就在海投的时候就无法入围,放着columbia 5个项目,NYU 3 个,各大学校一堆,我们没有亮点。找VP, MD level的,人家自从JP Morgan出了事情以后,招关系的就很小心了。现在最恐怖的是,有钱人家的孩子也很努力!所以除非你是省部级官员或者未来潜在客户家孩子,剩下的很难。投行招人是有资金限制的,招一个不干活,能拉钱的,就得招一个能干两倍活的,那么大家衡量一下自己的竞争力吧!

下面说课程和知识:

1。课程极为繁重。每周PPt slides大概一门课需要150页,每学期差不多三门,每周PPt阅读量450页。每一个星期,上6门课,12个小时,但是由于上课节奏十分紧凑,基本上下来一节课需要2-4个小时消化。那么一周需要12+3*6=30个小时学习内容。数理基本功不好的同学需要补数学,统计知识。及时基本功好的,browien motion, stochastic calculus也需要自己阅读shreve等大师的书籍,这个时间就不计算在内了。接下来,一周一门课一个作业。编程课经常作业15小题,作业要求大概平均8页PDF..基本上一次简单作业4小时完成,难的10小时。取平均数 6*3=18. R的作业,很难找淘宝代写,除了自己完成就得大家合作了。合作你懂得,这也是后面一大部分的重点,血淋淋教训!说回来,一周需要30+18=48小时在学习上。48/6=8,请问有几位同学每天能认真学习8小时?本人的确做不到!(这点没人反驳)

2. 大的,完整的,在业界名声响亮的program毕业生必须个人能力强,具有独立完成项目的能力。UW CFRM最致命的是知识内容不成体系。
这里面的课程,statistical Models那节课内容过难,很难学到东西,基本就是混考试。如果没有记错,这门课要先学,那么基本就浪费了,因为没有多少基础学不懂。更关键的是,mathematical method and stochastic calculus之类的核心数理知识是金融衍生品定价的核心。这些没有完备的训练,那么当大家在工作中真正看到一些复杂的exotic options的推演以及定价的时候,就知道没学的后果了。举个例子:OTC中很常见的barrier option在市场里有30种,基本公式:

这些都是我在做资产定价的时候,我老板(也是我朋友)教我的,没有基础怎么学?(我当年是有cmu朋友交流以后,自学的stochastic calculus)

有人反驳,说现在开了stochastic calculus什么的,确实,program课程设置在进步,这个值得肯定!

3。学费不便宜。这个是相对的一个问题。比如mit 10万学费,但是投行进去了,基本第一年70万港币,第二年140万,那么1年多点就收回投资。UW最好的能找到8万美金(税后约6万5)的工作,单说找到在美国的工作一年就4-5个吧,你有信心一定能?如果回国内,好的30万,差的15万。UW每quater 12分 每学分1000USD,加上注册费,保险等,1200,每学段学费 12*10000+1200=13200 毕业需要5个quarter,就是65000 再算上生活费那些,西雅图成本也高,其实不值!

有人反驳说这个是最便宜的,的确便宜,但是考虑到在美国平均税后5w左右的工资,还不算上回国20万左右的收入,我的观点是相对金钱,体力复出确实不值

4.由于作业量很大,基本上没有时间大量阅读WSJ和思考金融逻辑的问题。其实很多时候,学习是不断反思,思考,加深的过程,但是由于平时完成作业上课,已经让部分像我一样学习动力不足的同学或者是兴趣爱好广泛的同学怨气十足,我其他时间真心不愿意再学习。这样是很可怕的,因为在没有意识到问题之前,我接近于被培养成金融码弄。大家还是要思考一下以后20-30年人生,是不是就做一个码工,还是需要有更好的发展?没有时间思考,确实很麻烦。远离了市场,面试的时候也是一大弱点。

最重要的问题:歧视!
我想,这个问题就带有很多个人因素,但这个再一些方面也是有意义的。系里面Steve Goldbeck 是非常nice,也很NB的人。他上课认真,负责,很好交流,个人十分喜欢他。可是,由于中国学生在写作业的时候存在抄袭问题,多次暴露,现在每个professor监考的时候的极其严格,等着抓作弊,其实国内学生是没有什么好的印象的。CFRM估计是实在找不到那么多合格的美国学生才招这么多国人的。

有人反驳我说这是我给个人的经历。我请问一句,你敢说你所有code都是自己写的?没有交流过?几个自己爱回帖的,站出来回应一下?是不是每次考试,教授都非常苛刻的在盯着,你们不觉得很不舒服吗?被人如此不信任? 2013年秋天出的事情需要我说说不?

最重要的歧视的根源是:

仔细研究会发现,系里面除了他以外,各个professor都是顶级名校PhD学历。而他是唯一一个master而且学校完全不知名的。他是怎么来的呢?因为他以前给Doug Martin的公司打工,后来Doug Martin卖了公司,他就被招进来做instructor.注意,他不是professor,也不是acting professor,而是instructor. 最悲剧的是,好几门必修课都是他教的。

下面就讲讲我跟他的个人恩怨:我个人承认自己不是一个好人,算是个刺头,但我自己主动不招惹别人。本人爱打球,在UW嚣张看不起国人的外国人也跟兄弟打过不少次。也帮朋友通过学校途径维护自己的权利过。我进program的第一天,我们办welcome event,当时介绍他说他教trading system之类的,因为我一直希望成为trader,所以在我介绍自己的时候,我还特意向他表示我要跟他好好学习algorithm trading(自动算法交易)。当时令我吃惊的是他很冷漠的瞪了我一眼。后来他上来介绍自己,没说两句就开始说去年抓了好几个学生因为写编程作业有code相似,是作弊(cheat),很严重的academic misconduct,抓了就fail之类的,今年要出台关于academic conduct的准则,正在撰写什么的,全程一点不友好,我当时就很吃惊。2012年8月,我进UW CFRM第一个quarter,就上了他的trading system develpement课程,当时他的课是3分,但是他的作业常常是让你一周自学一种程序的语言并且开发一个交易算法。我当时就懵了,因为UW本科3学分的课程对应的学习时间和工作量是有限的,绝对不能这样搞。我很傻很天真的给她写了一个邮件,说能不能稍微少一点。在美国和我本科的时候,这样的交流是很正常的,但是他直接回复我 ” I am quite surprised by your answer! ... 说他喜欢布置什么作业就什么作业 ”。这就是问题的开端。后来有两次作业,因为code在某一个地方有error,那只是20道小题的1道,但是他就算整个作业0分。他说他就这么grading,你code有error就是0分。这个就要说回来R的一些问题了。很多时候,你在自己电脑的界面上运行不会遇到问题,他是从他电脑的batch mode上运行,有时候我们是没法检测出那里发现的bug的,而且本人编程很差,第一次他的课就拿了3.2.我大三大四GPA基本就3.9-4.0; 所以当时我很失落。

再之后,2013年10月,我上他的R语言课程,由于那一学期要准备申请工作,三门课都要编程,实在压力过大,我跟我朋友经常一起写code,然后改一改小方法和变量名称(注意,我是改变方法的,不是仅仅换变量),我们后来被抓了。抓了就fail到没什么,但是当时他找我谈话,上来就说我copy XXX's homework。 说我cheat.我当时自己在偷偷录音,我肯定不能承认说我Cheat,因为我没有抄,但是方法类似,最多算上mis conduct。在美国,承认cheat就是认罪,学校会给警告,学历记录上就会有案例,所以决不能承认。结果他就说“please do not chanllenge our intellectual capability, we are not stupid".本人当时直接回的就是I have nothing to talk about with you. If you accused me of copying my friends' homework, I do not take this indictment and I absolutely did not copy. 他就威胁我说,你要是不承认,我就把这件事上报department, 到学校lvl来决定,你很可能被开除。我瞬间回他:"you go ahead do whatever you like to do".我确实没有抄,就是没有抄,我也不怕他去告我。后来另外一个professor一直对我很好的,他看这样的氛围就赶紧打圆场,说让我考虑一下,因为不管怎么样,instructor都会fail我的这门,有没有必要闹成这样。我心想怎样都要retake,那么就算了。但我最后告诉他,我没有cheat就是没有,我们还签了一份协议,就是这件事不会影响我的academic record,就只要重新上一次。

时间到了今年。刚刚过去的那个quarter,Guy Yollin又绞尽脑汁抓了4-8个中国学生因为code类似而认定作弊。我重新retake他的这门课(这门必修课),前7次作业我都完成了。结果第八次,他说因为这一次的作业跟去年的作业很像,所以我不能写这一次的,这次我需要给他出一份作业,并且把答案写好,让他明年给下一届的用。由于我在证券公司做衍生品定价和产品设计,每天十分繁忙,我就给他解释说我真的没有那么多时间,因为帮他写一份作业设计和答案要花至少20小时。我没有责任和义务因为我去年的作业跟今年的相似,我就不能与其他同学一样去完成这一份。况且,你采取的方式会让我多花很多时间。我前面也说了,他一个作业,20小题,光要求10页。Guy Yollin的回复用了好几个个人攻击色彩的形容词:
1.我一边学习一边工作,是unwise的。
2.我的论据unreasonable。
3.我让你写这个作业,你爱写不写,不写就0分。

具体内容见下面email原件:
Hello XXX,
As you know, the homework assignments in AMATH 542 Winter 2014 have been similar but still somewhat different than those  used in AMATH 542 Winter 2013.
Unfortunately, assignment 8 is very similar to last year’s assignment and I feel it is unfair for other students to allow you to do this assignment as a result of seeing last year’s solution.
In this regard, I am assigning you an alternative assignment 8; see attached write-up.
As you will see from the write-up, the assignment involves actually creating a new homework assignment that I could use in this course in the future.
Please disregard the assignment 8 as assigned on Canvas and complete this alternative assignment 8; I have extended the due date to Sunday 3/9 for this alternative assignment.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Best,
G


我回复:

Dear Guy:

I am taking the full time internship in China and I need to spend weekends and night times to learn lectures and to finish homeworks. The mid-term for the class will only take 2 hours to finish but your three parts write up make-up mid-term will cost me at least 15 hours each.


As to follow the graduation policy, the reason I need to retake the class is only to finish my credits to graduate. Even though the homework for this time is similar to the one in last year, but I do not think that is a reason for me to spend quite a lot extra hours to avoid doing a similar one. Also, as a student in UW for 6 years, I never heard that the professor will assign a new assignment only for the reason this is similar to last ones. If I am not taking the full time internship and the time constraint is not a big deal for me, I am ok with it. However, at this time, I have no choice but only hope you can consider about my situation.


Sincerely,

XXX


You were given the opportunity to do a project in lieu of the midterm exam because of you had an unexcused absence and missed the midterm exam.  If you do not want to take advantage of this opportunity, I have no choice but to give you a grade of zero for the midterm.
As for assignment 8, your statement “I never heard that the professor will assign a new assignment only for the reason this is similar to last ones” makes no sense whatsoever.  The reason I cannot give you the same assignment as last year is because you have already received the solution, and the reason you are taking a class where you have already received the assignment solution is because you are retaking a class that your failed because you cheated; please do not lose sight of how you are in this situation.
Once again, you have the opportunity to do the alternative assignment but if you do not want to take advantage of this opportunity, I have no choice but to give you a grade of zero for assignment 8.
If you’ve made other commitments that interfere with your ability to fulfill your academic responsibilities than this would seem to be unwise planning on your part.
Best,
G

Guy,


First of all, my reason is not an unexcused absence! I have all the official documents from US Custom that shows why and how I cannot take the exam! I approached you in email immediately but you did not reply until I sent you one more directly asking you have you seen about the situation.


Secondly, do you think your make-up mid-term is way too much than the typical mid-term would take? The mid-term only covers 2 hours but how long should the projects cost? 60 hours?

Also, the program is not helping out on finding internships, so what should I do if I did not start only on my own? I tried very hard to get this opportunity and if you do not assign me way more heavier workload, I can handle both sides pretty well.


I want to emphasize that I have fully aware of the responsibility about my MISCONDUCT last year, however, what makes you feel like I lose sight of my situation?


How many hours are you expecting me to spend on this kind of project or alternative assignment?  A failing degree means my ability and level of knowledge does not meet the bottom line of the course, therefore, all of my performance in this quarter matches my understanding and progress. You did made couple changes in last 7 assignments and in assignment 8, most of the contents are not same. Also, in regards to the sentence you quoted me and commented as nonsense, I want to emphasize that if you really hate us, you can also made modification on your part for this assignment as you did for the last 7 assignments. I was also retaking another class and why the other professor was not doing things like you?


I believe the purpose of this program is to teach students to learn knowledge and gain the ability to work, but what makes you feel so uncomfortable even if we can finish the homework as others did. Your argument is homework 8 is similar, but is that entirely the same to last year one?


Finally, it sounds to me that there are lots of personal factor involves into the situation even I am not aware of what makes you hate me so much. Of course, as you are the instructor of the course and you have the power to fail me again. Of course you can say take it or not and let me do the binary questions only with one feasible answer. I had been dedicating for 7 weeks followed lectures and finished each homeworks and my single purpose at this time is to GRADUATE. I BELIEVE, IF I DID NOT TAKE YOUR REQUEST, I WILL FAIL  THIS COURSE AS LONG AS YOU ARE TEACHING IT.


The fact is, as a student in UW for 6 years, I had never heard the student need to finish a way more time-consuming homework only for the reason that he had done similar ones before. Also, I never encountered a professor that intentionally make unfair treatment and personal comments toward a student. To be wise, I will do what you asked me to do and hope you can let me pass the course.

I don’t want to keep going back and forth through the email, but I do need to respond to you regarding your accusation that this is a personal factor or that I hate you.
I do not have a personal issue with you, and I absolutely do not hate you, in fact, I have always found you to be a bright and friendly student.
Nevertheless, you have demonstrated that you are fairly irresponsible.  This was the case with the academic misconduct and this was the case with you not following directions regarding your registration in the fall, leaving the country, and being unable to return which resulted in you missing the midterm.
Now, we are simply trying to work through the consequences of these issues.  I am committed to judging student’s academic achievement in an impartial way and I will judge your work in an impartial way, despite the fact that I need to create alternatives due to your unique situation.
So let’s stop going around and around on this issue.  Just do the assignments to the best of your ability, I’ll grade them fairly, and hopefully you’ll be finished with this course in a couple of weeks.


4.29 update:Guy Yollin给了其中一个作业20分,平均分是90分,具体内容晚点post。


最后,我想说,我自己有很多问题,这一切很有可能是我自己造成的。我因为目标设定太高,高过了我的能力,高过了自己的努力程度,因而很失望。也可能是因为我自己当年信心满满MIT,没有认清自己,而造成了留在这个program。但是,我也不想否认program里像steve 这样的professor他的确给我们传授了很多东西,可惜的是,由于director不管事,和在网站上的一下擦边球信息会误导很多人。

金融这个圈子很小,讲究出身。出身不好,能力又不是那么突出,可能很多年不能飞黄腾达。希望跟我一样”好高骛远“的同学,因此为戒,在申请过程中好好思量。在人生的道路上,想想从这走出来,去做你爱做的,目的是什么,又能有什么优势?这个社会,尤其是金融界,更势力。关系<利益。你能给他带来的才是核心。

























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沙发
发表于 2014-3-2 15:17:52 | 只看该作者
前排围观坐等insight
板凳
发表于 2014-3-2 15:25:14 | 只看该作者
话说西雅图现在不是晚上么。。。
地板
发表于 2014-3-2 15:46:46 | 只看该作者
坐等insight!
5#
发表于 2014-3-2 15:49:24 | 只看该作者
前排等直播!
6#
发表于 2014-3-2 15:59:54 | 只看该作者
围观一下
7#
发表于 2014-3-2 16:07:33 | 只看该作者
楼主人呢
8#
发表于 2014-3-2 16:07:34 | 只看该作者
火前留名~已经搬好小板凳
9#
发表于 2014-3-2 16:13:22 | 只看该作者
套餐热卖:小板凳+爆米花
10#
发表于 2014-3-2 16:16:25 | 只看该作者
我还申请了!惊悚!等楼主~
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